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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Isis claims to be islam as KKK claims to be christian. IMO isis just look like criminals; probably disenfranchised young adults without direction or a job in an area torn apart by war and political corruption.
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MH2
climber
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IMO isis just look like criminals; probably disenfranchised young adults without direction or a job in an area torn apart by war and political corruption.
That perception may be wrong. The other day on CBC Radio Loretta Napoleoni was interviewed about her book, The Islamist Phoenix. She compares what is happening to the creation of Israel, although she acknowledges that is a deeply troubling comparison to many people. But there is organization and direction behind what is taking place over there.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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A better title would be.....science not religion.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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"Isis claims to be islam as KKK claims to be christian. IMO isis just look like criminals; probably disenfranchised young adults without direction or a job in an area torn apart by war and political corruption."
And lack of women. Pretty much analogous to the mining towns in the old west - with similar levels of violence - substitute religion for whiskey.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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jgill: What's your problem? What qualifications would you recommend?
I don’t want anyone leading anyone else who sees the universe as only materially, especially at the level of the most basic materials in the universe (supposedly, matter). But it doesn’t matter, if you know what I mean. Sometimes the conventional world catches my emotions, and I think that there is something wrong with it, or that there is anything I can do about it. It also points out the fact that for a moment, I think I know what’s better or right.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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DMT about WB: . . . we study Werner Braun we are most certainly studying the sometimes as#@&%e spirit within ;) And if that sometimes as#@&%e spirit is life itself then studying Werner's Crusty Asshole is studying life.
We probably wouldn’t need a telescope to figure that one out.
Most everything that you've recognized here in this thread has nothing at all to do with science, DMT. If it does, then science is a modifier for What This Is. It comes long after what is real. What is real has always been here. Science, just a little while. It’s just an elaboration.
People have a tendency to adore and laud just about any new thing that comes along.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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A little timeline. The Universe is approx. 13.8 billion years old, the Earth 4.54 billion and the first Homo Sapiens appeared less than 200,000 years ago. The religion that most here hold dear is 2000 years old....kind of a belated start but, for some, better late than never.
Science doesn't have an age, science is the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world. The physical and natural world far predates religion. The dinosaurs had a nice 160 million year run without having to worry (and wonder) about original sin.
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WBraun
climber
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The physical and natural world far predates religion.
Wrong again.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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The physical and natural world far predates religion
Wrong again
Ya gotta love this guy!
;>)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Bushman ur last one is Phat!! (that means i like it and it brang a big smile to my face!)
MikeL said,
If it does, then science is a modifier for What This Is. It comes long after what is real. What is real has always been here. Science, just a little while. It’s just an elaboration.
Great perception MikeL!
That got me thinking in a whole new direction. What is "SCience"? There's almost as many definitions for "Science" as there are people! But as you said, "Science has only been here a little while." But really hasn't the workings of "Science" been here since the beginning?
Before Man, for instance, plants converting sunlight, isn't that "Science"? and, monkeys using tools, "Science"? and on and on. So "Science" what ever that word means must be a construct of Man?! So is "Science" merely Man's way of taking credit for what he find's, or creates? Gravity was always there, but is it "Science" because Man discovered it? When i think of "Science", i think of searching and discovering for what has not been seen yet.. Maybe that is what is called "Scientific Method"? But would TV's and computers be considered "Science"? Or Apollo 7? They are already in our back pocket! Are our bodies, the most magnificent construct in our Solarsystem anyways, considered "Science"?
Am i "Science"? What is Science??
What urks me most is when someone bash's something and they don't even have the facts right. Like Donini Did.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Ya gotta love this guy!
Yea! cause you Love Truth!
Both "Science" and "Religion" are constructs from Man's mind.
Understanding goes beyond both!
You know what Two is, after rehearsing one plus one for a lifetime.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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As Donini said, science is simply the process of understanding the universe through reproducible observation. This has been going on as long as sentient beings have existed. Any being that has adopted a behaviour after experiencing an adverse or succesful outcome while foraging, avoiding predators or attempting to mate has employed the principle of science. (Whether that behaviour is superstition or not is another matter).
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dinosaurs are still enjoying their 225 million year run and going strong.
I just saw one (a sharp shinned hawk) perched in my magnolia yesterday. Their favorite prey? Other dinosaurs.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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So far I've yet to see a poem from the 'non-materialists'.
Ah well, that's oversimplification for youz.
Putting things in little, easy to understand boxes seems to be a universal tick among the angry hairless monkeys.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I don’t want anyone leading anyone else who sees the universe as only materially, especially at the level of the most basic materials in the universe (supposedly, matter). But it doesn’t matter, if you know what I mean.
seems bigoted to me... sort of like saying, "I wouldn't want a Roman Catholic leading anyone" or "I wouldn't want a Jew leading anyone" or "I wouldn't want an Afro-American leading anyone" or "I wouldn't want a Gay/Lesbian leading anyone"...
you get my point, I'm sure. MikeL has made a startling post to this thread, he doesn't feel a physicist should be a leader of the country because of his beliefs, apparently, the belief in a material universe disqualifies people from government service. Or maybe more broadly, from any leadership position.
It would require a fuller explanation not included in the snippet provided, to see just how this could be justified. Surprising perhaps, that MikeL might post such a thing.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You don't think the Duck writes poetry?
if non-materialist poetry you want. i'd refer you to Psalms. If it's the poetic science of man's material lusts i'd say Proverbs.
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WBraun
climber
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Thousands upon thousands of scientific instruments that study life.
Nope not even one of them.
They study the material infer energies.
Life is superior to material energies .....
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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The few, the chosen, just KNOW. Everything in its proper little box.
Knowledge, understanding, experience, and open mindedness can only sully the perfection of true enlightenment.
The jewel in the eye of the lotus requires no polish.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Life doesn't seem to stand up to the material energy of a bullet all that well.
Ducks quack. Then they quack some more. That's how they do.
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