Look Out! Danger!... Or... "Look Out! Weak Sauce."

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nah000

Mountain climber

canuckadia

Oct 19, 2012 - 01:04am PT

there are really three separate issues here:

1. was the original climb misrepresented? nobody vehemently disagrees with this at this juncture (except pelut). even rivet hanger at points seems on the verge of acknowledging this. why anyone is writing multi page screeds about this when, effectively, no one disagrees, is just, like: wow, man.

2. was the original climb a botch? read the answer to 1.

3. does the original botch justify the second botch? even madbolter acknowledges his route has value only possibly as a rappel route and he'd be fine if someone else chopped it. in this regard rivet hanger for all of his either trolling or defensive rhetoric has a point if one cares more about the results on the rock then one does about the intent on the ground.

three points of explication:

1. what i have to respect about madbolter is he is willing to say things that not many would agree with.

from half a dozen posts ago he says: "I don't give a rodent's testicle about what you did on the Titan itself (I'm different from many here in that respect). I CARE about the ethics of what you DID compared to what you CLAIMED"

this is an interesting idea. while madbolter may not care what happens to the rock as long as it is honestly reported, i can't agree. the rock is a shared resource and what is done to the rock by another climber is something i care about. even if it is unreported and i stumble upon it.

2. for someone who claims that he doesn't care about another climbers acts, only their honesty, madbolter sure makes a lot of judgments about how close together and how heavy handed pelut's placements are.

starting with the fifth sentence of the original post madbolter reports: "This is the most contrived, manufactured, worthless "line" I have ever even heard of, much less seen. The FA team apparently couldn't even reach more than about 18 inches, because that's about as far between placements as I've seen so far. And virtually every placement is heavily drilled/trenched!".

hmm, i must be missing the part where he is not caring about what is done to the rock by another climber. so while he might claim that he's not interested in the role of high priest of "aid style", his words belie a different reality. in case he's open to his own ambitions a piece of unsolicited advice:

if you want to be the high priest of "aid style", and publicly call out another climber with worldwide public ridicule, that's fine. if you've earned your position as high priest you'll probably even be taken seriously. if the only justification for your route is that "i'm a ground up fundamentalist so in order to "discover" whether the first climb was a botch job or not, i had to to ground-up a similar line with tons of new holes", that's also, arguably, maybe, admirable. but in case you really do care about the style aspect of your high priest role, you better be willing to turn around and erase it (or at minimum have a plan to, once people have had a chance to see the evidence). in the age of the interwebz, if you want to hold others to your religion, and stay a high priest, you have to be willing to bear the cross of your own shortcomings.

and if a person isn't able to see the hypocrisy, given the history of dramz we're all aware of thanks to said interwebz, methinks they may have stared into the abyss a trifle too long.

3. so while the rock may not care what a human's actions are, a lot of people do. and to me it's a lot like art. the only people who care what a piece of art is supposed to be or what the "narrative" is, are those who are too attached to their own temporary relevance in a certain area of "expertise". at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is what is on the wall.

imo, what is left on the wall now, when i ignore the narratives, are two botches.

tl;dr: fundamentalism makes the whole world go blind.

Captain...or Skully

climber

Oct 19, 2012 - 01:10am PT

You'll see Ponies & sh#t....

Rivet hanger

Trad climber

Barcelona

Oct 19, 2012 - 04:05am PT

I give it up, I've said and brought evidences and indications of my opinion (which at last, is just that in spite of direct threats becuase of two contrasted photos)... Now, you'll say that are no evidences and we'll begin a new loop again, with very very short texts.
So, ok, I it GIVE UP, you and specially supercute ponies WIN! I don't know the translation in English, but Catalans say "Time puts things at the right place". We'll see...

Nevertheless, I just hope that Jeremy or Paul will decide to upload some pictures of their last Tower's trip (well, Jensen was not lying, because it's obvious that an experienced hard aid-climber knows that if you can place a BD angle, you'll place a head and fill the rest of the hole with, mud?... my God! For anyone who knows basic things about aid-climbing it is almost an insult!).
Anyway, all you should have in account that a new porposal of really hard aid-climbing route has become for God's action the "Maestri Route of the Towers". Applause and ovation as a show of respect!
So, advice for next possible repetition, take one of this or give a call to Kennedy and Kruk:

Be well!

raymond phule

climber

Oct 19, 2012 - 04:22am PT

give it up, I've said and brought evidences and indications of my opinion (which at last, is just that)...

Your opinion have been clear all the time but I don't know what evidence you have brought though.

About the deep hole with bashies you have to ask Pelut. I don't know why he did that but my guess are that he did it to achieve manufactured difficulty. Especially manufactured difficulty that looks more difficult than it is. A deeper hole with a bashie is probably safer than a shallower hole with a bashie and it might look better and more impressive to same people compared to a bolt, rivet or drilled angle.

Rivet hanger

Trad climber

Barcelona

Oct 19, 2012 - 04:52am PT

I break my promise but i cannot avoid it...
A deeper hole with a bashie is probably safer than a shallower hole with a bashie but it might look better and more impressive to same people compared to a bolt, rivet or drilled angle.
It also says much...

raymond phule

climber

Oct 19, 2012 - 05:03am PT

It also says much...

Yes, it says much about Pelut's climbing style. The hook belay wouldn't be very hard core if the first placement after the belay was a bolt or drilled angle so he obviously placed something else. He seems to have decided that a deeply drilled hole with a bashie would make the hook belay look hardcore without being to dangerous.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Oct 19, 2012 - 05:29am PT

Rivet Hanger said-

I give it up,

I it GIVE UP, you and specially supercute ponies WIN!

GOSPODI! This may change the very course of history, from a dark and ruined world shall arise Supertopo - reborn as SUPERTOPIA! A nation free from prejudice, wooden pegs, and butthurt, and dedicated to freedom, ponies, and rock climbing ethics policing! Oh happy day! A new and fragrant dawn for humanity! A SHINING and GLORIOUS-

I break my promise but i cannot avoid it...

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Oct 19, 2012 - 09:44am PT

The video is little blurred. So is that Rivit or Richard in the pink?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nAmqP6hStds#!

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 19, 2012 - 10:04am PT

This thread is gold.

pelut espania

Big Wall climber

Espania

Oct 19, 2012 - 03:54pm PT

The root is A6- and now destroyed for all Americans by the SA who shouyld really watch the Olefsky video on how to do the aid. We did a nice line and it will stand as a monumente to all Espania! These new guys are telling all Americans things that boldness is not alive in our soles and they are wrong!

Ricardo-Cristobal Marquez

climber

Barcelona

Oct 19, 2012 - 03:58pm PT

I am more Espanian than you are so you can mack on my concha. Puta.

Da_Dweeb

climber

Oct 19, 2012 - 04:34pm PT

rick d

climber

ol pueblo, az

Oct 19, 2012 - 05:37pm PT

rick d

climber

ol pueblo, az

Oct 19, 2012 - 05:39pm PT

so Pelut=

can you answer HOW MANY HOLES DID YOU DRILL?

pelut espania

Big Wall climber

Espania

Oct 19, 2012 - 05:59pm PT

can you answer HOW MANY HOLES DID YOU DRILL?

Woold that be including your madre mi amigo?

rick d

climber

ol pueblo, az

Oct 19, 2012 - 06:14pm PT

I would like to know, from the actual first ascent party members, how many times did the drill come out to play. A Valid question.
-------------

Then, the team notes in the press release of doing the RAD NEW ROUTE ON KINGFISHER WAHOOOO

(and we repeated weird science)

no comments? like wow that first pitch was bad ass and I could have died! I went climbing with Jeremy shortly after that lead and he was raging over how bold it was.

-------------

Get Grossman in this discussion- some jackoffs attempted to repeat Jolly Roger and said nothing of the lower hooking pitches (then bailed) for Grossman to later find out the second ascent had improved hook placements because they believed the flake broke off.