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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Feb 26, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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I agree Gene. They need to clean house. I don't think that it is as bad as it is portrayed, but I don't really know. Maybe I just want to believe. My hope is that he really is doing good. And that there isn't that much waste. I don't fully trust krakauer to give an unbiased picture.
I would love to see a full and complete and above board audit. Plus have someone trustworthy and unbiased visit each school and do an assessment. I don't care if it takes a year. Just do it.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 26, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
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I don't fully trust krakauer to give an unbiased picture.
That's fine. The CAI's own documents are damning enough for me to conclude something is big time wrong.
https://www.ikat.org/about-cai/financials/
g
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sempervirens
climber
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Feb 26, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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I think CAI and GM will be completely undone. It's hard to believe they are holding on at all. Is anyone donating? I know they have $ stashed but is any more coming in?
Krakauer did say in the 60 minutes piece that Mortensen is no Bernie Madoff, and that he clearly did get schools built. I'm asking again, why is Krakauer so motivated to pursue this?
I realize he was bilked. I too bought the whole story, donated a couple hundred bucks, told all my friends, passed the book around. Krakauer can't need the $75K, right. He doesn't need the publicity. Jealous?, baloney; not with his mountaineering record and writing career. The truth should be told, I agree. And it has been told, or much of it has been told. Why keep hounding Mortensen?
Another pity is that many will likely conclude that building schools in that region doesn't work, may as well build war enemies.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 26, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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One reason to keep hounding CAI and Mortensen is so that they are forced to make the necessary changes to the organization if they want to continue to do the good deeds they are claiming they do.
Right now, nobody with an IQ above a single digit would trust the organization. Instead of being transparent as they claim, CAI has circled the wagons. That's not good.
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sempervirens
climber
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Feb 26, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
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...easy to change a culture? I doubt it would be easy. I doubt it was easy to build one school, or convince one family to allow their daughter to attend. If one student learned, whether it was easy or not, then there was some change.
The US gov. has affected change in the region. Was it easy? Has it been for the better? Is there a better way? Education might not create miracles, but it's better than no education. It sure beats what the US gov. has been doing in Afghanistan during the past ten years, IMO.
It sure looks to me like Mortensen is guilty as charged. That's no reason to abandon education in the region.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 26, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
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I don't fully trust krakauer to give an unbiased picture.
I'm asking again, why is Krakauer so motivated to pursue this?
Pointing aggressively at sharks in the deep, dark ocean makes Mr Krakauer seem lamb-white by comparison...(or so he must believe). This inquiry pleads for more objective, clear-witted writer(s).
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
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Feb 26, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
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Is anyone donating?
I feel really bad for the children, particularly the girls. They really looked up to Greg, for a variety of reasons. Heartbreaking to watch any of those vids or look at the pics!
edit: the real hero's(IMO)are the people who did donate(many that post here)hopefully most of it went to good use(i see allot of smiling faces in the vids). i hope those children are reminded of your good intentions and that you cared/care!!!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 26, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
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Why keep hounding Mortenson?
If you don't just let the crook alone you're "hounding" him?
Next time someone like Mortenson or Madoff comes along, just call it water under the bridge and forget about it.
Not nice manners. So just forget about your 75K and the millions fleeced from tens of thousands of others.
Even if you see it as being part of your "job" as a muckraking journalist.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Feb 26, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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sempervirens asks "Why is Krakauer so motivated to pursue this?"
Simple. Semper veritas.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 26, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
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Krakauer's first succesful writing was about his solo ascent of the Devil's Thumb. I always take what people tell me at face value, unless I have been proven wrong in the past, or have reason not to, but when I read it back in the day, I immediately had my questions if he had made the summit. Has anyone ever disputed this climb?
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onyourleft
climber
Smog Angeles
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Feb 26, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
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Has anyone ever disputed his climb?
Ummm... Seems like you just did.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 27, 2012 - 12:00am PT
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I scanned Krakauer's account of the Devil's Thumb, in a paperback copy of Eiger Dreams. It's clear that he didn't reach the top via the north face, and indeed failed well below the top on both his attempts.
As for his climb of the southeast face: "The insubstantial frost feathers ensured that those last twenty feet remained hard, scary, onerous. But then, suddenly, there was no place higher to go. It wasn't possible, I couldn't believe it. ... I was on top of the Devil's Thumb. ... I took some pictures to prove I'd been there." Seems quite clear that he did reach the top via that route.
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laughingman
Mountain climber
Seattle WA
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Feb 27, 2012 - 12:13am PT
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International charity work has and always will be a messy endeavor, I am willing to accept that much. However I feel that Greg Mortenson committed major charity mismanagement and likely full on fraud. Even in the 50% of the money that went to Pakistan I wonder how much plainly misappropriated and stolen that can never be recovered ( 3rd world transactions are likely done in cash). I feel he has damaged the credibility of US charities abroad for a very long time.
Also
Kathryn O’Hehir ( one of Jon krakauer critics) must be a very inarticulate person .....
http://open.salon.com/blog/kjohehir/2011/10/13/when_monkeys_fly_out_of_larry_drurys_ass
I know high school dropouts who can come up with better insults...
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Feb 27, 2012 - 09:29am PT
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Thanks Laughingman.
Ms O'hehir states in her blog that she did graduate work toward a masters degree in English at University College Dublin. I am sure the college is proud to be mentioned next to her poem.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Feb 27, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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she is obviously a Frank Booth fan
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 27, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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Stich LOL
That Kathryn O’Hehir's poem is fuking funny even though it's stupid .....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 27, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
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bobinc,
good one!
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 27, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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I was motivated to contribute to CAI as my first major act of charity. I decided about a month after the controversy erupted to cancel my auto monthly contributions. I was prepared to go pretty far in terms of allowing rule-bending in the spirit of doing the right thing, figuring out how to get stuff done for real in a place with extremely high corruption.
What really set me off was how the whole charter of CAI was modified and expanded (compare current charter with that in the original Three Cups of Tea book) to make the US speech tour appear to be within the charter. Originally, increasing awareness and teaching in America did not count as part of the charter, and this sneaky representation of "Education" as part of the core programs hides the fact that this is marketing expense and as such CAI is an incredibly inefficient charity compared to most others. Perhaps in the very big picture, this inefficiency does ultimately lead to more dollars entering the region to build more schools, more so than a more efficient but less successful organization. It's hard to know what is right. But the fact is CAI is very dodgy about how they represent these potential realities, and create a climate of distrust for potential donors rather than laying all the cards on the table and saying, "look, this is how it works in the real world."
In any case, it took about 5 months before I finally called CAI to cancel my auto-contributions.
At the time of the original newsbreak, Greg sent out damage control letters claiming he was dealing with his heart problems and surgery recovery before responding to all the allegations.
Around Christmas 2012 (a loong time after the public allegations) I got a calendar and newsletter with details of his recent trip to Afghanistan/Pakistan area, and no substantive discussion of the allegations. Apparently his heart is well enough for high altitude travel and hiking, but not well enough to give an itemized response to the accusations.
His actions appear to be stringing out the inevitable collapse, or hoping it will all just blow over if public scrutiny and attention span drifts away.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 27, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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There's a terrific amount of suggestion and implication going on,, none of which is particularly substantive. That first link to the Outside Mag, despite it's length, provided very little of substance but a huge amount of speculation. If anything, it's an impressive piece for how little substance it contains despite its length. Anyone wanting to write a high school book report should take notes.
First, it attempted to suggest that CAI's unwillingness to discuss the issue, despite acknowledging that it had been directed to by it's counsel. Duh.
Second, the mere filing of a civil claim doesn't mean the claim has any merit. Though the article sugggests that somehow the claim may qualify for class action status (I don't know if they're requested that), I agree that the damages issue is too thin to warrant any relief. You bought a $20 book on Amazon and portions of it might be untrue...? A small claims court, where such a claim would be brought, would toss the case summarily. Even if you donated money to the org, clearly a lot of schools were built. How do you even begin to prove that your specific funds weren't used.
Third, the vocal support of a loon does not in any way reflect on CAI or Mortensen. That is just a loon that Outside has decided to give a platform in an apparent effort to apply a little guilt by association. Unless the person is a representive or spokesperson for CAI, who cares? Pretty pathetic.
The real case worth watching the Montana AG's inquiry. That forum is where the truth of Mortenson's and Krakauer's respective positions will likely receive their proper showing.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 27, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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Nutjob,
that is really sad. Sounds like he is in denial, which only makes things worse.
Best thing to do would be to make a clean breast, and leave it to others to point out the undeniable good that he HAS done.
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