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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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Alpinist909- 2."God dwells in chosen temples." Chronicles 7:12,16
Yes, in the Old Testament, God requested, first, a Tabernacle(which was transported across the Sinai)and subsequently a Temple(Jerusalem)where He(God the Holy Spirit)dwelt, and was worshiped, as long as the Isrealites were obedient.
Alpinist909- "God dwells not in Temples" Acts 7:48
This is correct.
Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to dwell in mans hearts. This is what happened at Pentecost. The New Covenant.
When you ask Jesus Christ to come into your life, He supernaturally does!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:39am PT
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Alpinist- 3."God dwells in light...God dwells in darknest(clouds)."
Yes, God is Omnipresent...He is EVERYWHERE!!
EDIT: You need to look at these verses in context dude/dudette, not simply google-cut-paste!! You obviously have never studied scripture.
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Clarke Brogger
Mountain climber
Laguna Beach, Ca
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:45am PT
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Flouride~
I don't see or sense any motive for debate from Juan. This all started with a simple question. "What are your favorite Bible passages?" You didnt have to respond.
You read into Juan's post a whole bunch of your own stuff. Leave THAT for another site. If somethign on this site doesn't interest you dont waste your own time by responding.
Peace.
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go-B
climber
This side of Heaven
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Apr 11, 2010 - 10:19am PT
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Daily Readings from the Life of CHRIST, vol.2
By John MacArthur http://www.gty.org/
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Alpinist909
Mountain climber
Chesapeake
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Apr 11, 2010 - 10:20am PT
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Trip
I grew up in the bible belt. My family attented many churches in many towns. After I left home, I would attend the church of girlfriend I was dating. So I have heard much of the scripture. I have read part of the bible. I watch coworker pray before meals. I hear people speak of god. My kids pray before bed and attend church with my wife.
I tire of being pc in my surroundings.
Non religious people are suppose to tolerate the god fearing. Our politians make idiotic decisions based on their religious beliefs. Who is going to risk the ridicule to speak againt them?
I could go on a rant why religion is poisonous, dangerous and causes as much harm as it keeps the honest, honest.
I have been posting out of spite. This is a climbing website. If I wanted to have religious debates, I would go to the appropiate website.
Post like this here are fair game and the logic of my post will make some people who doubt their faith even question it more. As I started doing 20 years ago. Then stepping away from religion to look at it from a more scientic angle helped me decide that I had been a sheep in the money making industry of the church. Away from the book of campfire stories they were designed over centuries to control the masses.
Good luck with your pursuit.
best regards,
John Fitzgerald
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Alpinist909- Noble of you to take up the baton.
"It's Ovah for Jehovah." That's the mantra. Day to day, might not seem so. But give it three generations (75 years) and it will be obvious. The internet-driven info age is just too strong. Thank goodness.
Hadrian: Brick by brick.
Ghandi: Be the change you seek in the world.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Apr 11, 2010 - 08:47pm PT
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Alpinist- "Good luck with your pursuit."
It's not a pursuit, it's a relationship!
I found Him long ago. And once you do, "He will never leave you or forsake you."
"Seek and ye shall find, knock and you shall enter"
He is knocking on the door to everyone's heart...you never invited Him in to yours.
He is a spiritual presence, as real as any person on this earth, and much more so.
There are many people in church that go along with all that you have spoke of. Many are very good people, they just never got on their knees, admitted they were sinners, and asked Jesus Christ into their hearts/life.
They know all about Him, but they don't personally know Him.
There are many people here who know all about various individuals. Read all about there climbs, exploits, adventures, and what others have to say about them. They've read and dissected there writings and articles, there books. But they have never personally met them.
God(Jesus) could care less about money(look at what He did in regards to the money-changers in the Temple)...it's about your heart.
Science?? Why not PERSONALLY ask Him if He is real? Just ask Him "IF you are real, and you are God, then I do want to go to heaven, I do want to know you, thank you for dieing for me, please come into my heart!"
What have you got to loose?
You would be a fool not to.
"Only the fool says there is no God!"
20 years??
You could have found out in 20 seconds...the time it takes to say the above prayer!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
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"He is knocking on the door to everyone's heart...you never invited Him in to yours."
He never has to knock. He's already in there in every living entity (atma) as paratma.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 06:25am PT
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Nowadays, the ONLY light philosophy as a discipline seems to have is coming from the Daniel Dennett camp.
ROFL!
Ooops! Your amazing ignorance is showing again!
Thomas Nagel, John Searle, and Saul Kripke (look 'em up; they're not "lightweights") all beg to differ with your ridiculous (and, yet again, sweeping) claim.
HFCS: yet again... open mouth... wider... wider... insert foot... deeper... deeper... try to close mouth... but...
just...
can't...
do it!
Really, my friend, you should stick to pure ranting, because when you try to make substantive claims, particularly about philosophy, you only demonstrate, yet again, your utter lack of intellectual honesty. You read only what suits you. You completely ignore the vast body of evidence opposing you. Yet you cite "millions" as though numbers have anything to do with it. You honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
Exercise a bit of intellectual honesty and discipline, and then at least you won't be embarrassing yourself. If you want to get serious about comparing Dennett with other mainstream analytical philosophy, I'll be happy to point you to a representative body of literature. Barring that, you should really just stick to mindless rants.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 06:34am PT
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Then stepping away from religion to look at it from a more scientic angle helped me decide that I had been a sheep in the money making industry of the church.
John, genuine spirituality and religion are two quite different things. And while you're condemning "money making industries," take a closer look at science itself. Then, if you think that the money expended really is worth it because you get "cool stuff" like microwave ovens out of it, well, look even more closely!
Science is not a truth-seeking mechanism; it is a purely pragmatic enterprise proposing models of "how things seem to work to us at this moment in time," and those models at times can be used by engineers to give us some "cool stuff." But the "cool stuff" does not demonstrate the truth of scientific models (contrast Carnap's "verificationism" with Popper's "falsificationism").
If the "cool stuff" wows you so much, well, so be it. I'm not wowed enough to think that the claims of science are TRUE. There are many, many more types of evidence on the table than merely the empirical evidence; and the empirical evidence itself needs interpretation.
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ExtraBlue
Ice climber
the ford VT
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Apr 12, 2010 - 09:19am PT
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Alpinist909
You just made my morning. Keep up the good work!
Now my personal favorite passages from the sacred texts
AND SO HE SPOKE UNTO THE TRADMAN AND SAID GO FORTH AND SPREAD THE RULZ FOR THE BOOTY BENEFITS NOT THE WHINER NOR THE CRYBABY NOR THE FAINT OF HEART, BUT HE WHO CLIMBS WITH THE DAWN TO RECOVER THE GEAR LEFT BY THE FEARFULL. EXCEPT
#1 If you leave it for any reason other than assisting in a rescue it is booty as soon as you leave the parking lot unless you make it known that you will be back the next day to retrieve it.
#2 if you plan on getting it the next day BE THERE BY 6:00AM! Don't show up at 4:00pm and start crying when you can't find your shwagg.
#3 If it takes full screws and you don't know how to make a thread STFU and stop your whineing
#4 Just because it is late and you are tired is no excuse to start drinking and head home to your computer to beg us to go retrieve you shwag for you.
Hike your lazy ass back up that trail and find you own lost tool or stop whineing and write it off as lost.
Rules for finders.
#1 Stuff you find in the parking lot is Not booty. Its lost and found material.
#2 Any and All gear that is left or misplaced in the course of a rescue including the victims gear is NOT booty and will be collected and returned to rightful owners.
#3 any gear that is abandoned or lost due to incompetence, lack of skill, sack or sheer laziness is booty as soon as the former owners of that gear have left the cliff and given up attempts to retrieve that gear. Exceptions would be when the spanked party announces intention to resume recovery process at first light the following day.
#4 Finders of booty may offer to return said booty. The losing party loses face if they accept the return of their gear.
Rules for the losers
#1 Asking for your gear back is bad form and shows a lack of self respect.
#2 If the finder of your shwag offers to return it you may accept but if you do you will lose face. Buying them a six pack or case will help but in some cases still not completely erase the honor debt. If they offer , you refuse and they offer again and you accept it's much better but you should still buy them a drink and you still lost face just not as much face.
#3 The ONLY way to escape your embarrassing loss of gear without losing face is to not accept its return . A simple " thanks for offering but you guys earned it" should give you a clean slate 99.9% of the time.
Of course there are allways going to be a few exceptions to these rules. For instance if I had rapped Poko to retrieve those Quarks on Gorillas I would have returned them ASAP and still hold the spanked leader in extreemly high regard. Try that same trick on Standard RT and be too lazy to hike around to rap in and retrieve your tools and you would be giving me a new set of Quarks
(quoted from Tradman of Neice)
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Apr 12, 2010 - 11:50am PT
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Sad comparison.
Uh... What is it like to be a... living thing that can't accept its own nature. We're not only evolved beings, we're mechanistic beings, not "above" the causal laws. Spend your energies adapting to your nature instead of fighting it.
At least science and engineering are results oriented and moving forward. Not stuck in the past. Nor stuck in any medieval bed with that ol decrepit now-discredited whore of Abrahamic theology.
Spend even a few weeks admiring the science and engineering principles underlying engineering products that have reshaped the world's cultures and maybe you'll begin to see the distinction between these disciplines and yours.
Back to school. You chose a decrepit discipline. Nobody's fault but your own.
"...not wowed enough to think that the claims of science are TRUE."
At least the claims of the sciences are evidenced in real time everyday in their engineering, engineering products of technology. At least everytime I'm hanging by the mechanical advantage of a camalot I'm not wondering if a spook is going to suspend laws because he doesn't like me and retract it.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Apr 12, 2010 - 11:55am PT
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Bears repeating:
re: philosophy as an academic discipline
At least the claims of the sciences are evidenced in real time everyday in their engineering, their engineering results, engineering products of technology.
At least everytime I'm hanging by the mechanical advantage of a camalot I'm not wondering if a spook is going to suspend laws because he doesn't like me and retract it.
Philosophy as a discipline, esp in any traditional line of discourse, is irrelevant today.
At least science and engineering are results oriented and moving forward. Not stuck in the past. Nor stuck in any medieval bed with that ol decrepit now-discredited whore of Abrahamic theology.
Spend even a few weeks admiring the science and engineering principles underlying engineering products that have reshaped the world's cultures and maybe you'll begin to see the distinction between these disciplines and yours.
Back to school. You chose a decrepit discipline. Nobody's fault but your own.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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You know it and I know it-
The reason philosophy as an academic discipline spends so much time in early and medieval history citing references and talking crazy esoterica (to which nine out of ten people don't relate) is because it doesn't have anything new or substantive (by comparison with science and engineering) to add to the discussion.
If the "cool stuff" wows you so much, well, so be it. I'm not wowed enough to think that the claims of science are TRUE. There are many, many more types of evidence on the table than merely the empirical evidence; and the empirical evidence itself needs interpretation.
To use your favorite expression: ROTFLMAO. C'mon, confess. You're one of these (professional) philosophy types who runs interference for old Abrahamic theology, giving it refuge. A Christian philosophy student smitten-- in love-- with an old Mesopotamian theology. Well, growing numbers are onto your type now.
Adapt. Take some engineering courses. Nothing like a few engineering and technology courses and maybe some lab work to teach respect for the sciences. You need some.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
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The man wrote-
"Science is not a truth-seeking mechanism; it is a purely pragmatic enterprise proposing models of "how things seem to work to us at this moment in time," and those models at times can be used by engineers to give us some "cool stuff." But the "cool stuff" does not demonstrate the truth of scientific models (contrast Carnap's "verificationism" with Popper's "falsificationism")".
Basta. Enough.
Dude, you're now in the same penalty box as go-B. Shame.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
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At least the claims of the sciences are evidenced in real time everyday in their engineering, engineering products of technology. At least everytime I'm hanging by the mechanical advantage of a camalot I'm not wondering if a spook is going to suspend laws because he doesn't like me and retract it.
ROFL.... Keep it coming, HFCS.
Yet more ignorance. Your example, the Camalot, works because of the principles of geometry, not because of the method of science. Furthermore, engineering is NOT science, and scientists are NOT engineers.
And it's laughably disingenuous of you to cite Dennett out of one side of your mouth, while you dismiss his discipline out of the other. Indeed, if you had even a passing knowledge of the literature, you would recognize that most of the issues you take from granted (in your ignorance) are PHILOSOPHY of science issues, as is acknowledged by ALL "big gun" scientists (again, STACKS of quotes to follow if you desire). And, most hilarious is how you conflate ancient, medieval, continental, and analytical philosophy. Do you even know what TYPE of philosopher Dennett is??? ROFL, ROFL!!!
It may well be that you are entirely (and, I will add, accidentally) correct, that there is not such thing as the Judeo/Islamic/Christian God. However, two things are quite clear: 1) Your ignorant, distorted "understanding" of the relations to which you refer adds no credence to the world view you espouse; 2) If you happen to be correct, it IS by accident and not a result of any systematic truth-seeking on your part.
Ironically, if your world view is ultimately correct, the view itself predicts that NOBODY can EVER know this. Conversely, if my world view is ultimately correct, the view itself predicts that I myself CAN (ultimately) know this.
So, keep ranting (your world view states that you actually have no choice in that matter). Meanwhile, I remain amused by your post-by-post expressions of abject ignorance.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:14pm PT
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The man wrote-
"Science is not a truth-seeking mechanism; it is a purely pragmatic enterprise proposing models of "how things seem to work to us at this moment in time," and those models at times can be used by engineers to give us some "cool stuff." But the "cool stuff" does not demonstrate the truth of scientific models (contrast Carnap's "verificationism" with Popper's "falsificationism")".
Basta. Enough.
Dude, you're now in the same penalty box as go-B. Shame.
HAHAHA... wow, "dude," the fact that you didn't understand a single word I said, that you quoted, is obvious. You would not be "putting me in the penalty" box if you had a clue, "dude!"
All your hand-waving histrionics do not hide the fact that you are entirely ignorant, untutored, not acquainted with the relevant literature, and unwilling to even GOOGLE a few terms to avoid public stupidity.
Oh, btw, your "cross-post" edits, in which you basically rewrite from scratch your earlier postings, is evidence of your intellectual dishonesty.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:22pm PT
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The reason philosophy as an academic discipline spends so much time in early and medieval history citing references and talking crazy esoterica (to which nine out of ten people don't relate) is because it doesn't have anything new or substantive (by comparison with science and engineering) to add to the discussion.
Wow!
Just... WOW!
It is honestly amazing to me... verging on a sense of awe... that anybody would evidence this many layers of stupidity in public.
Wow!
Uhh... just curious... where does Dennett fit into this picture? Do you even know what TYPE of philosopher Dennett is??? (Try Google, btw. There is some help there.)
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