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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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May 20, 2013 - 09:44am PT
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I'm pretty sure knutts is the The Chief.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 20, 2013 - 09:44am PT
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I don't usually cite blog posts but there's a nice one by R. Gates just put up at the Arctic Sea Ice blog, on The Four Charts That Really Matter. In a very quick sketch it helps to explain why all the major science organizations, 97% of the active climate scientists, and 97% of research papers addressing this issue agree that humans are changing the climate. And none of those appear to be changing their mind. Full link at the bottom, I've quoted just an excerpt.
The troposphere is a low thermal inertia part of the overall energy system of the planet and contains only a fraction of the overall energy. It seems however, that there is an undue preoccupation with focusing on this part of the system-- probably because we as humans happen to live in it, and also because it is easy to measure. And since the troposphere can be fickle and far more subject to short-term noise from natural variability, it makes the most sense to look at the parts of the system such as the oceans and cryosphere that have greater thermal inertia and are hardest to change from short-term noise. When doing this, and comparing it to the constant upward trend in CO2 emissions, the following four charts become the most salient in terms of understanding what is really happening:
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2013/05/the-four-charts-that-really-matter.html
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 09:44am PT
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Whether I am or am "Knott", is not relevant to this issue.
I am a human on this planet that sees a dire need to consider the plight of the people on this planet today. Not in a hundred or two hundred years. Hundreds if not thousands of Children are dying daily throughout the world of starvation and disease from poor sanitary and food conditions. Many have no homes nor education to speak of. None of this is caused by the climate. It is caused by poverty and lack of concern by the societies of the well off (Amerikans) that are too busy squabbling over the politics of whether or not the planet is warming and how fossil fuels are or are not the cause.
The primary premise of the Climate Change followers mindset here on ST and else where states they want to save the planet for their children's children. All the while they do not bother to look not what lies directly in front and to side of them.
Being a climber or "Knott" is not relevant in this issue.
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 09:52am PT
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Mr. Chiloe,
Did you read the latest from Oslo. CO2 is rising but the heat is not. The heat is stagnant. The Antarctic Ice is growing and growing and growing. As are the Polar Bear populations that your kind desperately cried would go extinct all due to the C02. Your bible of fantasy is going to be shredded to bits in September when the IPCC releases the AR5 Report that includes of all things that the Sun does indeed play a major part in why this is all happening.
Polar Bears are not dying off. They are not.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323452204578288343627282034.html
I suggest you do as Dr. Hansen did. Retire to a far away place and hide. The house of cards is tumbling down.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 20, 2013 - 10:01am PT
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The Antarctic Ice is growing and growing and growing
prove it
multiple links from credible sources please
prove it
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 10:04am PT
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It is a fine line we tread. We must learn to be careful with our magnifying glass. Try to just burn off a limb or antennae, avoid the temptation of thorax or head. I mean that is fine if there is lots of them but with such a finite resource we may wish to follow the precautionary principle.
Mr. Kay,
Before you point at others, I suggest you go into your bathroom and hang a mirror up. Then you can indeed look into it and see the face you imply needs that actions you posted. May I also add, for that one finger you utilize to point at others, their are four directed at you. Your house of weak cards is coming down and you can not even see that. The blinders are hardened to your temples.
Oh the horror of it all.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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May 20, 2013 - 10:12am PT
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The antarctic sea ice is expanding(very slowly) in significant part because the continental ice sheets are melting. This runoff forms a cold layer that protects the sea ice from warmer waters below.
The antarctic continental ice is melting at a rate of 250 gigatons a year.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 20, 2013 - 11:46am PT
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Chief knotts,
Small increase of 0.9% per decade for Antarctic sea ice. Compared to over 4% per decade for Arctic sea ice. Tell us again how scientists concerned about climate change pick and choose their data... hahahaaa.
Awesome... less than 1 standard deviation over 2 decades... that's almost marginally significant!
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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May 20, 2013 - 11:59am PT
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If he is The Chief, he's hired a diction editor. His 'facts' look the same...
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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May 20, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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Knotts, Ron, Blahblah, Abrams and all other fellow realists-good job, you guys are keeping real world observations that falsify the virtual constructions of the Anthropogenic Hothead Religion right square in front of their faces. Unfortunately,just like most other religious extremists in history before them ,their belief system will only collapse as their numbers dwindle, in this case through their inability to procreate because of other reversals of reality prevalent in the overpopulated centers they congregate in and the high levels of female hormones present in their water systems.Your audience, the ones you can save, are the ones sitting on the fence at the sidelines.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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May 20, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
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Nice post, ed hartouni.
Thanks for your endless patience (and Chiloe!) in responding.
Worth restating the basic premise:
The climate is changing as a result of human intervention.
No one knows what these changes will lead to. There's a spectrum of possibilities. At one end of this spectrum, all will be fine. The other end of the spectrum is Al Gore-style disaster--we will induce a runaway greenhouse effect and destroy all life on earth.
The reality is somewhere in between. No one knows where. No one.
But, and this is the crux: the stakes are about as high as could be.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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May 20, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
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The climate is changing and always will because of long, mid, and short term cycles of both terrestrial and extraterrestrial origin. The primary driver is the sun; i want you hotheads to do a simple mind experiment, now close your eyes and imagine a world without that bright orb that rises in the east and sets in the west each of your days-what would be the result if that didn't happen. This is lesson 1. Report back your disatisfaction upon completion of this simple exercise.
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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The climate is changing as a result of human intervention.
But, and this is the crux: the stakes are about as high as could be.
You just may want to hold off on that claim till AR5 is released. You will be surprised at the new admissions that the 97% pro CC scientist that participated in the report have to add regarding the suns involvement in all this.
What may those "stakes" be and by who's standards? The fortune (models)telling are totally inaccurate and are not working per the recent published report I cited earlier. How then can you conclude your statement with such an extravagant fatalist claim? It is not happening nor is going to. At least not in the next century or so. The stakes are only as high as your crowd can perceive them to be. They are not in line with the reality which is in fact occurring.
The more you alarmist dictate the fatalism that is not realistically happening, the more you all define your firm stance of your religion, politics and ideology. Not environmental salvation of any realistic proportions. That I am afraid is what all this Climate Change blah blah blah is all about. We, those that do not agree with your fatalism, can see the clear writing on your faces. Not any walls mind you.
Straw drawing is now becoming the standard for your crowd. You now term it as Mr. Ed noted, "Variability". More scientific verbiage will be introduced to cover your back sides. That is obvious. Clap Clap and one more Clap.
But it is not working. Not one bit I tell you.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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May 20, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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Bruce, you moron, i'm not going to participate in your desperation as the cathedral of your church collapses inwards on you.
Farmers plantings have been delayed throughout the northern hemisphere because ot the near univeriality of a delayed spring. Here, in Alaska the current conditions are typical of mid April rather than late May. The delay is similar throughout Canada, the northwest to northeast, across Europe, Russia. It's been 12 years since the minima of solar activity between cycles 23 and 24, an indication that mid term cycles your simple minded gods, the computer models, ignored in the calculation then dissemination of it's false scripture.
For the rationalists among you-there will likely be shortages later in the season. Take a look at what's being planted and quantities.
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
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Here, I found one more your speed
http://kisa.ca/personality/[/i]
MrKay,
Obviously you are regular participant at the site you noted. But no thanks for your graciousness. I am happily married and have been so for long period of time.
Food shortages will be a reality later this year in the US. Not from warming. Rather from cooling. Dr. Hansen should have seriously considered his turn of opinion when he did. Would have been a far better bet to have remained with his original impending Ice Age fatalistic decree way back when. Oh the misery of it all.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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May 20, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
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The climate is changing as a result of human intervention.
But, and this is the crux: the stakes are about as high as could be. .
You misquoted me. Why?
This is what I wrote:
------------------------
"The climate is changing as a result of human intervention.
No one knows what these changes will lead to. There's a spectrum of possibilities. At one end of this spectrum, all will be fine. The other end of the spectrum is Al Gore-style disaster--we will induce a runaway greenhouse effect and destroy all life on earth.
The reality is somewhere in between. No one knows where. No one.
But, and this is the crux: the stakes are about as high as could be."
------------------------
Why did you misquote me?
I stand by what I wrote.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
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@ Knotts,
You demanded I refute your statement, and I have.
You refuted nothing. You simply posted some numbers. Typical.
 Knotts
I actually posted a paragraph that contained numbers, and the text surrounding the numbers explained what the numbers mean. And those numbers did refute your premise that the folks who believe in AGW have nothing to base their story on.
However, I see you posting graphs without any explanation of the graphs. And the graphs you post are based solely on numbers.
Can you see how this makes you a first class hypocrite?
The only thing I see of value in your posts is you demonstrate an "ability" to argue points made via scientific analysis. You do a poor job making any point, and your aimless posts have proven yourself unable to sustain an adult discussion.
In other words, you are a windbag of the first degree.
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
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You misquoted me.
Mr Crunch.
I did nothing of the sort. I simply took the two sentences which clearly indicate that you stand firm on a fatalistic concept of fantasy. The fact is, no one really truly knows why it is warming. Nor do they know the level or to what degree the planet will change as it or if it truly does warm. Need I remind you as Mr. Sumner has, this cycle is a very normal one for the planet we call earth. Dynamic. Very dynamic in nature. Nothing of which you, nor I nor Mr. Ed and all his scientific calculations can control or change. It is in fact the cards we humans have been dealt. Now play em with fairness and do not go along with this cheating game called "Climate Change Alarmism".
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Knotts
Mountain climber
State of Reality
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May 20, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
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So the polar bear population is up because so many have been seen in Churchill? That's like saying the US is overrun with tigers because I saw some at the zoo.
Pretty much aligns with your belief in this fatalistic concept of Climate Change. Thank you for you admission.
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