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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 26, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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Gosh Paul, it seems to me that over and over on this thread you have argued that the horrors of live are proof there is no God.
And yet you say such positive things about life in your last post.
The people who don't cling to life are rare indeed. Yeah, it's not the way we would most seem to enjoy it to be but it's funny. I bet there are a lot of poor villagers with disease and poverty who are more happy than Brittany Spears
Peace
Karl
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jan 26, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
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Again, my point is that theists have no way of reconciling the natural violence and "evil" found in this world with their belief in a compassionate proactive deity.
All religions are fundamentally nihilistic in this regard: all religions view the natural world flawed as a result of human action. Through the actions of Adam sin entered into the world and as a result God "Curse(d) the ground for thy sake."
Life is harsh, but it's beautiful: we are reconciled by that beauty. Humanity can mediate life's harshness through positive concrete actions not through the nihilism of outdated, tired myth.
Myth is only a temporary bandage for the wounded; it is the illusion that allows a comfortable exit into oblivion.
"Life is a tiger, grow some nuts, jump on its back and ride like hell!"
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jstan
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
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So happy--"that I'd never trade my life for a professional job in Europe or North America"
One evening I got a call from a lady in India. She offered to advise me on my finances.
So there is at least one person over there who would be willing to give up their happiness.
Happiness is a decision folks. Poor Indians decide to be happy because not being happy just makes a bad thing worse. Give them a chance to be happy here instead and guess what they'll do?
It's a pop quiz. Give you three minutes.
Time's up.
Edit for MH2's post stolen from George Carlin I think.
God has a plan. But he's not tellinggggggggggggggggg!
Wink wink
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MH2
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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Hmmmm, Socrates or Werner, Werner or Socrates?
Socrates - there is no Absolute Truth, no one really knows what they think they know
Werner - there is Absolute Truth, at least one person does really know
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jstan
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 05:51pm PT
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Don't hold your breath, Wes.
You're not going to get that answer real soon.
Gobee should be up shortly.
Have you noticed his missives don't break the frame quite so much lately. I think it was the fantastic choral arrangments that were the problem
Progress!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 26, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
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Wes, I've asked that question several times, on various threads. Only one person (John Moosie) has made an honest try at answering it, and he (correct me if I'm wrong John) pretty much admitted that he couldn't explain it.
Everyone else I've asked has either ignored the question and gone on propounding his beliefs as if the elephant wasn't sitting in the corner, or, like Werner, given a smart-ass answer.
Unlike you, I've tried to be polite in my asking, making it clear that I'm willing to listen, willing to believe if any convincing evidence is produced. But like you, all I get is... Nothing.
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jstan
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 06:08pm PT
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David:
I would bet money that question was first written out in cuniform. One day someone digging around in a cave will pull that tablet out.
Perhaps another tablet with the answer will be found near by.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 06:34pm PT
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roehl -- "All religions are fundamentally nihilistic."
You don't know anything. You're a mental speculator. A guesser.
Always guessing. Maybe it's like this .... or that.
You're the guy in the desert crying for water, screaming for water, hoping for water, when all your words produce nothing but dry sand in your mouth ....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2010 - 06:41pm PT
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Blind Faith were an English blues-rock band that consisted of Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker, Steve Winwood and Ric Grech. The band, which was one of the first "super-groups", released their only album, Blind Faith, in August 1969. They were stylistically similar to the bands in which Winwood, Baker, and Clapton had most recently participated, Traffic and Cream.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jan 26, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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"You're the guy in the desert crying for water, screaming for water, hoping for water, when all your words produce nothing but dry sand in your mouth ...."
Ha Ha, I'll take dry sand over kool aid any
day...
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roadman
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
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"You're the guy in the desert crying for water, screaming for water, hoping for water, when all your words produce nothing but dry sand in your mouth ...."
Ha Ha, I'll take dry sand over kool aid any
day...
from one retard (werners word, who says that anymore?) to another that's f---ing funny!!!! ha ha ha bah ha ha!!!!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 26, 2010 - 07:55pm PT
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weschrist!
He only promises one thing "eternal life!" see John 3:16!
I suppose you could line up at east a million people on this planet and they would all request that Jesus do this or that, or didn't do this or that. Or come up with some tale, real, fabricated, or hypothetical in which some person that I know when...
Check your own heart Wes, where does this bitterness come from? It is from your spirit and the "spirit of this world' that feeds it. It is out to destroy you Wes. It is eating your soul, and when it is finished with you...Eternity waits.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:00pm PT
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Weschrist, your friend getting raped repeatedly as a child, is so sad and sick, there's is just no excuse for that, and that is absolutely not her fault at all! That guy deserves God's wrath! God didn't do that or want that to happen to her or would it enter His mind such atrocities! That is pure sin, God can't sin!
Proverbs 27:1, Do not boast about tomorrow,
for you do not know what a day may bring.
The Lord Is My Light and My Salvation
Of David.
Psalm 27, The Lord is my light and my salvation;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold of my life;
of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When evildoers assail me
to eat up my flesh,
my adversaries and foes,
it is they who stumble and fall.
3 Though an army encamp against me,
my heart shall not fear;
though war arise against me,
yet I will be confident.
4 One thing have I asked of the Lord,
that will I seek after:
that I may dwell in the house of the Lord
all the days of my life,
to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord
and to inquire in his temple.
5 For he will hide me in his shelter
in the day of trouble;
he will conceal me under the cover of his tent;
he will lift me high upon a rock.
6 And now my head shall be lifted up
above my enemies all around me,
and I will offer in his tent
sacrifices with shouts of joy;
I will sing and make melody to the Lord.
7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud;
be gracious to me and answer me!
8 You have said, “Seek my face.”
My heart says to you,
“Your face, Lord, do I seek.”
9 Hide not your face from me.
Turn not your servant away in anger,
O you who have been my help.
Cast me not off; forsake me not,
O God of my salvation!
10 For my father and my mother have forsaken me,
but the Lord will take me in.
11 Teach me your way, O Lord,
and lead me on a level path
because of my enemies.
12 Give me not up to the will of my adversaries;
for false witnesses have risen against me,
and they breathe out violence.
13 I believe that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord
in the land of the living!
14 Wait for the Lord;
be strong, and let your heart take courage;
wait for the Lord!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
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Eternity waits.
And in the meantime, Wes is also waiting.
You may wonder at his bitterness, but his question is still a reasonable one, if crudely put.
You prayed to Jesus/God to save you from death at the hands of a madman, and feel that your prayer was answered. Fair enough. But how do you explain Jesus/God's refusal to answer another kid's prayer? Or the prayers of 110,000 in Haiti? Or millions around the world? Or hundreds of millions who have been tortured/murdered/raped during the time humans have been on God's world?
It's not a silly question, and I don't think it's disrespectful to ask.
If it's asked politely, I think it is disrespectful not to answer.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
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I answered the question a couple pages back near the end of the thread.
Peace
Karl
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
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Ghost- "If it's asked politely..."
Maybe like this as per weschrist..."with the audacity of people like 777, gumbee, and many religious fuknards etc., etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc, for the last 6 months. Cursing and defiling the name of our Lord, putting words into our mouths that we would never say or believe such as this one from weschrist "Getting raped repeatedly can be attributed to 2)not being worthy of Jesus friendship." WHAT????? How many times do we have to quote John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever..." And state that He will take ANYONE! Just the way YOU are.
Have YOU asked Him Ghost?
Have YOU asked Him Wes?
We have gone over and over these same questions here.
You don't believe or except the answers.
You don't even believe He exists. It is not my job to prove or disprove anything!
I fulfilled my commission away back there when I told you what Jesus did for ME, yes at 8 yrs. old!
If you don't believe ME...FINE.
Ask Jesus Christ yourself when YOU meet HIM what happened to your real, imaginary, or hypothetical friend!
Why kids die along with everyone else is for Him to answer. I will grieve with my friends and the rest of the world until I see those very kids in Heaven. And I will rejoice now knowing that He takes children with Him to Heaven. Why? I do not have all the answers! Maybe He prefers to take them, rather than have them go through life and suffer all the HELL I have here on earth these last 50+ years.
Many a day and long night I have asked Him that very Question!
Why would He leave a pathetic wretch like me here, and take someone like Tobin home so soon? Go figure...but I am glad He did. Like my brother told me when I asked him the same question years ago "Maybe He is not finished with you yet!"
Evidently not.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
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Christians through the century's have been kill for their faith! Man's inhumanity to man is evil no matter how and to whom it happens! The bible say's that this is a fallen world apart from God will, with the devil doing his worst! But natural disasters have horrible consequences, we live in the real world, and anyone of us could be gone today! As Christians are hope is in God and Jesus!
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
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Ghost -- " ...... God's world?"
This material manifestation is actually created by YOU for YOU.
Just as a prison has been created by your own self.
God builds the prison for the rebellious souls.
All you people keep blaming God for everything.
It's your fault not his.
That's why I keep saying you guys are all mental speculators and guessers.
YOU DON"T KNOW.
So learn .........
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
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Locker -- "Is it even possible???..."
You got it right.
The answers these guys are asking are far too complex to answer on an internet forum.
Everyone wants cheap and easy route, with no work.
All rascals ........
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jan 26, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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The sacred cow says "Moo."
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