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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 27, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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I just heard about this tragedy and it brought to mind a day 6 years ago when I was shooting with some doctor friends and their kids.
One of the docs had a Mac 11 (a full auto 9mm with a VERY fast cyclic rate. There is a photo of me shooting the same gun with tracers at night in my R&I interview 10 years ago).
He was going to let the other's 11 year old daughter try it out, but I called a cease fire and suggested that if she tried it to first use a clip with 1 round, and then another with 3.
First shot was fine, but with the 3 shot clip she climbed the muzzle more than 60 degrees!!!
Good thing she didn't have 4. Her dad and I immediately called a halt to kids shooting subguns, but it was more a function of the other doc's irresponsibility (he did other stupid stuff since and I don't shoot with him any more). I think she could easily learned to control the weapon. In Africa there are 11 year old soldiers who wield AKs effectively.
That instructor should have known to do a similar low cap clip routine to get her used to the climb.
Likely she could have learned to shoot an Uzi like an Israeli girl.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Aug 27, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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And finally a legit reason for wearing a Google Glass!
The computerized & networked aiming scope on
Tracking-Point rifles feeds video to Google glass
For those everyday around the corner shots we all have to make.
Thanks Google!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 27, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
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It's a good idea to load guns and hand them to children...
Who knew there might be a problem with that?
Not this guy
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I say every rule was followed....
I say every measure was taken to secure every step of the way in this case...
I say all the humans involved were all skilled and knowledgeable in firearms use and safety....
In hindsight, I say it must have been really necessary for the parents of this child to get the child shooting early....
Not to mention.... In this case.... which was the good guy with the gun... which was the bad guy with a gun? Seeing how so many gun nuts see themselves in their own staring roles in Dirty Harry films of their own making....
But.... don't mind me... I'm an admitted Idiot.. and yet I know that this situation did not have to happen....
Hey, gun nuts... who is going to be there to tell the kid if this was a good kill or not?
Who wants to guess on the cost for therapy for this child? (Wait, this happened in Arizona.... there may be no cost to the child for any therapy.... this is never going to become the new normal in Arizona.)
Hey gun nuts.... Don't be put off by my seemingly anti gun stances... and certainly don't take anything this idiot says personally... I don't know you, gun nut... How can I possibly have meant your attitude needs adjusting? Plus, I tend to not see the gun as necessary accessories to my wardrobe, which is why I tend to stay away from them... and stay alive a day longer at a time.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
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I bet the dead instructor idiot was a republican.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 28, 2014 - 06:30am PT
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Interesting, does it make you feel better about yourself if the instructor was a "republican"?
Sheep will never change...
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 06:41am PT
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Yeah dummy. Because when kids get into climbing gear nothing happens. Because 10,000 plus people are murdered with guns in 'Murica every year. Climbing murders must be pretty rare. Because 30,000 depressed Americans kill themselves with guns annually.
But mostly because cowardly gun nuts can't even stay on topic because they are afraid, always afraid.
( mostly to Johnny rigs deleted stupidity)
But, yes it affirms my judgement when stupid f*#ks are stupid across the board. Yep, feelin good.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 28, 2014 - 08:35am PT
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So much misdirected rage Flip Flop.... I feel sorry for you.
Being happy about the accidental (although obviously self-negligent) death of another person is pretty twisted.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 09:22am PT
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Yup, the US military and police forces (not to mention many responsible citizens) are just out there subverting justice with every round fired.
Says the guy who supports shooting a fleeing unarmed thief?
TE
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 28, 2014 - 09:43am PT
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 You keep repeating "Nothing bad will happen" enough.... you start to think its true....
This is the type of ridiculous sh#t I hate to see from humans who, on the one hand tell me they are adult enough to carry a gun in public...
I'd like to call it what I see it to be..
What do you get when you put 7 billion humans on a planet and give some of the humans the impression that they are better than all others in one location of the planet...how are all those egos going to get the attention they think they need in order to survive...
Guns are not needed to survive... To illustrate this I have a 2 part request any gun nut to answer: When was the first gun produced? How did humans survive the hostile and cruel world before then?
You see, as soon as a nut gets onto a thing they say needs to be, I have to take a step back and ask what happened before that thing became needed?
When I find I have to make up something, or draw in conclusions that aren't there I tend to think of myself as lying... disingenuous, lacking integrity.
Only part of the reason I lump religion in with guns and say we wouldn't need either if we only realized we need each other to survive.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 28, 2014 - 09:50am PT
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Nothing bad happens on thousands of ranges and sporting shooting events around the country every single day....
And ....even with CHILDREN!!!....
I know.. the horror.
But, as with anything, if you make mistakes people can get hurt or killed.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 28, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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But, as with anything, if you make mistakes people can get hurt or killed.
good reason to have open carry, concealed carry and general gun presence in everyday life would be a good idea...
We just gotta take the good with the bad I guess... so what if a mistake happens while I'm walking by some nut with a gun on hand... oops.. mistake
I'm totally willing to live in the society you propose, but I cannot be expected to sit by an not point out stupid when I see it...
I'll go find the mirror now.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 10:06am PT
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Back on point. Prohibiting kids from using such weapons might save a life or two, but there are far more serious problems with current gun laws. I sincerely hope the family of this instructor, or perhaps OSHA can sue that range owner into bankruptcy. While it may be legal to allow a small child to shoot such a weapon, it could be done safely, but not by handing a small child an untethered sub-machine gun with a full magazine.
TE
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Aug 28, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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Nothing bad happens on thousands of ranges and sporting shooting events around the country every single day....
CDC says otherwise: 606 people were killed and 14,000 injured by accidental discharges of firearms in 2010.
TE
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 28, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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I avoid threads with Jefe and Leggs in them for this very reason!!!! They come off as Super-Ready-to-Kill-Anyone ;)
not sure I can agree with this statement...
But it's funny to imagine...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 28, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
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Guns are not needed to survive... To illustrate this I have a 2 part request any gun nut to answer: When was the first gun produced? How did humans survive the hostile and cruel world before then?
Are you really this clueless, or are you a troll?
WEAPONS are needed to survive! As the bar gets raised over time, such that the threats gain more sophisticated weaponry, the right of self-defense will need to acquire more sophisticated weaponry.
From the dawn of consciousness, it's been an arms race. Are you really too dim to see that?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 28, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
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I will move to Copenhagen, with Werner, and we will live happily ever after, even though it's flat.
Don't wait!
Do it now!
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Aug 28, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
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Yeah - happiness definitely is a warm gun. Just oozes from the pores of Arizona.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Aug 28, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
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WEAPONS are needed to survive! As the bar gets raised over time, such that the threats gain more sophisticated weaponry, the right of self-defense will need to acquire more sophisticated weaponry.
Are you a clueless troll, apparently so.
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John M
climber
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Aug 28, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
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I feel bad for the little girl.
I can't even imagine what she is going through.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Aug 28, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
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I feel bad for the little girl.
Me too.
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