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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 15, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
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its the acme of stupidity and naivete.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 15, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
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Binks, Syrian puppet regime then we start with Iran. Hillary would certainly be up for it.
I'll wake you up when it starts.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 15, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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In Obama's press conference after the Orlando shooting, he pointed out that the radical Islamists want their jihad to be seen as a defensive war against infidels, and more specifically, the West and the United States.
The jihadists would like nothing more than for America to officially engage in a war against "radical Islam", because that would be easily twisted by the jihadists into "America has declared war on Islam". Then, the jihadists could plead self-defense to justify their attacks.
If Obama uses the term "radical Islam", he is playing right into the hands of the radical jihadists. They are Islamic, but they are only a tiny fraction of all Muslims.
Trump, by comparison, wants to generalize from the very few to the group as a whole, and persecute and evict the entire group. This plays right into the hands of the jihadists, who respond to Trump's ravings by tweeting,
"See? I told you so. Thanks for the congratulations on being correct about America's war on Islam."
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 15, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
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How do you think almost all Americans would feel, react, if every time an American
committed a murder that world's press would call it an act of "Radical Christianity"?
EVEN President Bush knew better than to say "radical Islam"
he had to meet with and deal with the leaders of Muslim nations
Radical Islam to them means ALL of their Islamic religion is "radical"
Presidents and acting Secretaries of State know better, they know how the nuances of words mean everything to other world leaders.
Those Muslim leaders understand and have no problem with the careful choice of words such as "radicalized segments of Islam" for example
But when they hear "radical Islam" they hear "all of Islam is Radicalized"
I don't expect that even 10% of Americans get this, but they should do this country a favor to try to open their intellects about this one important element of our foreign policy
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
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Derp
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jun 15, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
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Norton.... its a tricky thing, this name or label.
I would turn the situation around:
If some members of a Christian sect started running around the world and killing people while yelling: "Jesus Christ our Lord"
What would we do?
How would we stop the killings?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 15, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
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Has anybody said fvck Donald Trump lately??
Ok, I'll do it.
Fvck Donald Trump....
God bless the 2nd amendment, eh klimmer?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
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The Federal Government has so many laws that the project to catalog them all was abandoned. They don't even know how many laws they have written.
In 2007 the Inspector General said that there were over 700,000 names on the DOJ terrorist watch list and that list was growing at over 20,000 names per month (you do the math)
Numerous findings in an audit of the list process identified not only weak controls around how you get ON the list, but also findings showed lag times around getting taken OFF the list in cases of mistaken identity. Its basically nothing more than a shadow opportunity for the Federal Government to put people on a spurious list due to "suspicions" that otherwise should be fully protected by the First Amendment.
To propose that we not allow citizens to enjoy their 2nd Amendment rights simply because they are on a secret list, managed by a secret government agency is not only unconstitutional, its the acme of stupidity and naivete.
god forbid that i agree with you, but until this "no fly list" comes out of the dark ass of the government, it cannot be used to take ones rights away.
just google no fly list and see what happens. you come up with all manner of bullsh#t. there is no government agency that will come clean about why you are on one and how you came to be on it. you see, flying is not a constitutional right. but the right to arm bears is, so you can keep arming the bears.
until that list has transparency, it will lose in a supreme court decision.
thats not to say that something should not be done to curb the violence. there are clearly some crazy as#@&%es that should not have guns. i think gun control should be an option and i own 4 of them. i dont mind registering the hunting rifles and i had a waiting period for my revolver so you know damn well there is a list with my name on it.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
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https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
check the link out. and for god f*#king sakes all of you should be smarter than to listen to either windbag politicians or windbag news experts.
the idea that we could prohibit a person from buying a gun, which is in violation of our second amendment, is clearly in violation of our Constitution. Until such time that a constitutional amendment is made, or we understand how your name gets on the no fly list, we are screwed and its a bad idea for politicians to mention it.
but clearly, there are some rights where the courts have masturbated our rights away during the course of their interpretation.
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 15, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
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The CIA has always preferred the shadow war to the overt war. It's easier to get away with assassinations and war crimes in a shadow war.
The No-Fly list is part of that shadow war. It would be illegal for the CIA or FBI to keep a list of "people we are illegally watching and wire-tapping, because we think they might do something in the future". Instead, they have the No-Fly list, which contains the names of the people who are being watched. It is simply an administrative, bureaucratic expedient to bypass inconvenient human rights laws.
The entire "national security" excuse for all manner of government secrecy is very dangerous. A hidden, secret government, by definition, is not beholden or accountable to its citizens.
The government engages in compulsive secrecy, as part of a blanket policy.
Certain document requests to the CIA have been refused, in the name of national security; then, it is revealed that those same documents have already been published in newspapers.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 15, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
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The thought of some SECRET LIST maintained by a faceless bureaucrat making you ineligible to have firearms should scare the pants off anyone.
Not only is it scary but you're taking about an alphabet agency that had this dude under surveillance and he went to Saudi twice and still couldn't stop it. Yet you retards want the government to have a list that you can easily get on if you piss off the wrong bureaucrat or government official and lose your right to arm yourself.
And to think some of you want to limit the power of the rich and influential. Yeah right.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
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The entire "national security" excuse for all manner of government secrecy is very dangerous. A hidden, secret government, by definition, is not beholden or accountable to its citizens.
The government engages in compulsive secrecy, as part of a blanket policy.
i agree. the only thing scarier than what you wrote though is trump being in charge.....
and by the way, i worked for the gov. the elected officials are only fed what the career guys feed them. its really quite sad because your last sentence is exactly why we have a VA that fudged numbers to look good. This sh#t happens all the time.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
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Escopeta...Quit being a pussy...I'm not a gun homo but i can buy a handgun or assault rifle without the government finding out and putting me on some mythological terror list...I get what you are saying about our whimsical bureaucrats but I'd be more concerned about being on Cosmic's list...!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
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At least Cosmic has the stones to make his list public.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
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Mansplain your selfishness while someone who snapped, right now wants to purchase and use a semi auto to beat the new record.
What about victims rights?
What about potential victims rights?
Who is really losing their freedoms here ?
It is the gun.F*#k your rights.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
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F*#k your rights.
Speak for yourself.
If guns are the reason for the terrorist attacks and mass shootings, how about we go back to the gun laws when there weren't any mass killings and terrorist attacks.
What do you say, like around 1930 or so? How's that grab ya?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
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Who is really losing their freedoms here ?
It is the gun.F*#k your rights.
very frustrating, but the constitution is the law of the land and is why our country is as great as it is. unlawful search and seizure and a host of other rights. yes gun nuts are f*#king crazy and i dont get it. but so are some of the free speech f*#ks that do outrageous things because they can.
I am ok with banning some guns. but there needs to be some laws placed and those laws will be challenged at the supreme court.
but no fly lists? sorry the idea sounds good until you start asking how a list is developed. and you will never know. they get away with that because flying is not a constitutional right.
escopeta didnt make the rules up.
at some point our government will have to adjust to modern times and alter its course and adjust our rights or trump might be right on one thing. we wont have a country left.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 15, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
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Adjust our rights....lol.
Its a shame MB1 is on vaca, I would enjoy his response to that.
I'm just not as inspired.
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