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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:44am PT
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It's hardly disingenuous to point out that it requires a position of privilege to believe that the government only robs people of money and "individual freedom."
The error is that you attribute that sentiment to me. If you want to say that, fine. But to imply that is my position is silly and I don't care to defend your intentional misconceptions of my comments and prefer to call you out on them since you were the one that claimed I wasn't debating properly in the first place.
The assumption there is that we would be "more free" with "less government." Can you point to a time when this was true?
Yes I can. Yesterday.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:54am PT
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What does disingenuous mean, again? I forgot.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:54am PT
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I know that people on here are fond of debating Dems vs Repubs and all that. Which I guess can be fun.
But generations of elected officials have secured their place in the American machine through the extensive Regulatory and Compliance construct.
The alphabet soup agencies write virtually all the laws (otherwise known as regulations) anymore and the elected officials know that while they might get voted out of office, the place the government holds in the lives of every american is ever expanding. And they rest comfortably with the notion that none of those agencies will get voted out of office so the legacy continues as does the encroachment.
If you are someone who holds the position that these agencies and this incessant creep is good for the United States, I would have to disagree but at least you come by it honestly.
But to try and claim that its somehow not happening and that the concept is some right wing conspiracy theory, is perhaps the most dangerous position to take of all.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 06:21am PT
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And if you really give a hoot about the military industrial complex do a little homework on our current fleet of Ohio Class Ballistic Missile Submarines with their doomsday destructive power, and the current program to replace them which is moving, with stealth, through Congress and the Administration with nary a peep. 14 Submarines, each with 24 Trident IV missiles, each of which carries min. 8 independently targeted warheads each of which make Hiroshima look like a firecracker... min. 2688 such warheads.
You would think that if the Democrat party were valiant against the military industrial complex, any more so than the Reps., then their righteous opposition to this wasteful machine of Armageddon would be voiced loud and clear. Rest assured that every member of Congress and the Administration is aware of this sickening program but mum is the word.
Saying the Democrats are against the military industrial complex is about like saying the Republicans are against gun control.
Democrats might want to grow the MIC slower and Pubs want gun control to happen slower but it's funny when you hear people say they are "against" something. Neither party wants the problem to actually get better or go away. How else would they pander for your vote?
Both parties talk tough about these hot button issues when they have the American people fighting each other over the ideology of the thing. But when the time comes to repeal something they are found ogling their belly buttons on both sides of the aisle.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jan 19, 2016 - 07:22am PT
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But when the time comes to repeal something they are found ogling their belly buttons on both sides of the aisle.
Indeed. The George Bush and his Republican Congress, didn't destroy Roe V Wade. It makes too good a fundraising opportunity - for both parties.
I paid $1.97 for gas here in NY Saturday. This election should be a cakewalk for the Democrats. Instead, they seem poised to ride the TITANIC down for the sake of ideological purity. Some of the Republicans, think they can come out of it with a Veto Proof majority.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 07:34am PT
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Indeed. The George Bush and his Republican Congress, didn't destroy Roe V Wade.
I would also like to point out, for the mouth breathing 2nd Amendment blowhards, that during their majority they didn't find time in their busy schedules to use the opportunity to repeal ANY gun control legislation either.
As I have said, the R vs D debate is just to keep the weak minded focus away from the overall march to statism.
Watch the birdy.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jan 19, 2016 - 08:22am PT
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I would also like to point out, for the mouth breathing 2nd Amendment blowhards, that during their majority they didn't find time in their busy schedules to use the opportunity to repeal ANY gun control legislation either.
Guessing the "they" is the Democrats and agreed.
Same mechanics apply. It's an enormous cash cow for both sides.
My wife thinks Sanders will be the next President. I wish I could be sure. Another big terror attack, could shift things just enough.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 19, 2016 - 08:25am PT
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Escopeta posted The error is that you attribute that sentiment to me. If you want to say that, fine. But to imply that is my position is silly and I don't care to defend your intentional misconceptions of my comments and prefer to call you out on them since you were the one that claimed I wasn't debating properly in the first place.
I attribute the sentiment to you because you keep expressing the sentiment and then decline to clarify or expound. You just get defensive.
Yes I can. Yesterday.
I see. And what was so much better about yesterday?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 09:15am PT
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Guessing the "they" is the Democrats and agreed.
No John, the "They" is the Republicans. Anyone that thinks the Republican party is fighting the battle to defend our 2nd Amendment rights really ought to take a hard look at history.
The Republican strategy for 2nd Amendment rights is to "lose slowly". Drain the coffers of the 2A donations until its no longer politically expedient to support it.
If I am not speaking the truth, why do they not repeal gun control legislation when they have the chance? Oh, they fuss and muss when additional gun control legislation is proposed, but do you really think they care? Of course not. Its a shiny toy to attract more money and become rich politicians. Much the same as Gay Marriage. They don't care one way or the other, just as long as we submit the power to them to decide.
EDIT: Its the same rhetoric on the Dem side regarding the military.
Anyone wondering why people become career politicians? Its one of the most lucrative jobs you can get.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 20, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
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Conservatives want "you" to subscribe to a national religion??
Please...
Let me clue you in-----it AINT jewish.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jan 20, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Yeah, the GOP neo-cons are all for religious freedom - - - as long as that religion is their religion. Anything else, like Native American peyote shamanism, is deemed "malarky" and unsuitable for Constitutional protection.
This is like the GOP's belief in Free Speech, as long as it's something they want to hear. Occupy Wall Street? Shut that noise off NOW, with a militarized police force wielding pepper spray and poisonous gas. Silence the "economic terrorists" who are waging "class warfare" against the uber-wealthy "defenders of freedom".
If there is a conflict between corporate profits versus acknowledging and protecting a "malarky" religion (such as that practiced by Arizona Apache tribes), the GOP invariably chooses corporate profits.
Huff Post: GOP sneaks foreign mining corporation's grab of Apache ceremonial lands into Defense Bill.
Is it a coincidence that the GOP's "most progressive" refer to themselves as Neo-Cons?
"Neo-Con" translates directly into, "new-version con-man gambit" (confidence game, grift, fraud, deceit).
EDIT: I mistakenly said the Apache land-grab by the GOP to give to foreign copper miners took place in New Mexico. It took place in Arizona, which is, naturally, The Copper State.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 20, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
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I like to say these words for fun once in awhile
"Thank God" The Chief is gone
Now we can debate w/o a huge commotion about nothing
and I don't care if you have a different opinion on this matter
Please, carry on
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
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The degree of ignorance it would take to vote for Donald Trump is in fathomable. That is why Sarah Palin endorsed him.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
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Why are there two Trump threads?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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When she gave her endorsement to Trump in Iowa, Palin went on, at length, about...well, really, it was kind of hard to tell since her "speech" would more accurately be described as an oxy-fueled, deranged, incomprehensible stream of consciousness that would make James Joyce say, "What the f*#k are you talking about?" before drinking himself to a thankful death. From what it's possible to piece together, or maybe to interpret, like it's Faulkner at his most obscure, Obama is a pussy, liberals are victimizing real conservatives, and Trump will, sh#t, make America great again or something. Seriously, you figure this sh#t out: "Where, in the private sector, you actually have to balance budgets in order to prioritize, to keep the main thing, the main thing, and he knows the main thing: a president is to keep us safe economically and militarily. He knows the main thing, and he knows how to lead the charge."
there is no reason that we would treat this speech as anything other than ranting madness, which comes across even more when you watch it and see Palin shifting and twitching and gesticulating around like a ferret that got into the meth stash. Surely, Trump had to pay her to be there. Palin may be many things, but she knows how to grift for some cash
Surely, Trump had to pay her to be there. Palin may be many things, but she knows how to grift for some cash. Surely, Trump regretted it as soon as he realized he would have to stand there for however long Palin was going to have to blather on before she finally crashed and needed another hit of Klonopin or Vicodin or whatever takes the edge off her mania. In fact, you can pinpoint the moment when Trump realized that he might have made a terrible mistake. It's about 13 minutes in:
You gotta love that look of Trump glancing angrily to the side, as if asking some poor, demeaned assistant, "When the f*#k is this kooky broad gonna finish? I got a tanning appointment." Don't pity Trump here. Laugh at him for thinking that he was getting a loyal dog when what he really bought was a rabid wolverine.
Trying to discern the substance of a Palin speech is like trying to figure out how to stick your hand into a roach-filled hole to get that coin you dropped: you might find what you're looking for, but you're gonna end up disgusted, skeeved out, and coated with goo. And here is that goo-slicked nickel: "The permanent political class has been doing the bidding of their campaign donor class, and that’s why you see that the borders are kept open. For them, for their cheap labor that they want to come in. That’s why they’ve been bloating budgets. It’s for crony capitalists to be able suck off of them." Leaving aside the obvious jokes on the phrase "suck off of them," Palin dissed "crony capitalist" in front of a man who has profited mightily from that system. That kind of ideological dissonance might be alarming, but, well, Palin.
Oh, and f*#k you, John McCain.
See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.9oNHv8aN.dpuf
Donald Trump, the Ultimate Crony Capitalist
by Andrew Kirell | 12:01 pm, June 16th, 2015
http://www.mediaite.com/online/donald-trump-the-ultimate-crony-capitalist/
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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panem et circenses
nothing more.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
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Oh, and f*#k you, John McCain.
McCain led the charge to seize the Apache's ceremonial lands, and hand them off to Rio Tinto, a British-Australian mining conglomerate with a horrific environmental and human rights record.
Now that corporations are people, and non-profit PACs, LLCs and other legal artifices conceal who exactly is giving what to American politicians, we will see an increase in U.S. officials doing the bidding of foreign companies seeking to exploit American resources and American people. In the past, foreign lobbyists had to register with the State Department. Now, anyone, anywhere can establish a PAC for a purpose of monetarily fellating people like John McCain.
Soon, the U.S. will be no different from, say, Nigeria, which has been exploited by multi-national corporations for decades. The difference here is that the wrongful exploitation of the Apache lands was sanctioned, at the highest levels of government, as part of the "National Defense".
You can thank the deranged pricks on the Supreme Court. Have they even heard of the concept of "unintended consequences"?
Maybe the right-wing bloc of the Supreme court intentionally set the stage for foreign corporations to come in, loot America, and pervert our Democratic process through political bribery and clandestine lobbying. It's hard to imagine that the majority of the Supreme Court wants to destroy America, but dysfunctional people can be hard to figure out.
EDIT: Skeptimistic has it right: Trump farts out both ends.
For the sake of the children and blushing ladies, we call it "hot air".
But, it's actually sulphurous, poisonous gas that causes normal people to gag.
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