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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 14, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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The word "reasonable" is used in the definition of a great many things.
The word has a long standing tradition of being used simply because its definition is adaptive. And usually is measured by what is in use today.
For example, banks have been required to use "Commercially Reasonable Security" for decades and the definition essentially means "those methods currently in use by similarly situated financial institutions". Its nice in the sense that it floats to the "top" of common practice but as we are about to find out via the drone lawsuit, the term is not without its pitfalls.
The "reasonable expectation of privacy" may in fact expand to include a 'larger' sphere of privacy to extend out beyond the altitudes of modern cameras (which is quite a long way). However it might also shrink to a lower barometer due to the introduction of new technology.
I can say I still like seeing this get handled in the court of law by establishing what rights a person is entitled to vs. some banal registration scheme by .gov
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 14, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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I can say I still like seeing this get handled in the court of law by establishing what rights a person is entitled to vs. some banal registration scheme by .gov
agreed on both points. however, the registration scheme is really intended to address what I view as the real problem - uneducated operators not people with nefarious intent.
I fail to understand why the first thing everyone asks me is "who are you going to spy on this with?". F*#king ridiculous. First, if I'm using one of my vehicles to look at people it's actually to look for people with my FLIR on a SAR mission. Because other than that I've zero interest in flying near people (mapping missions, etc.).
And seriously - if I wanted to spy on someone I'd pull out the 600mm lens and find a good angle with my dSLR. A loud upside-down lawnmower with a little camera with a wide angle lens is not the answer.
And worse is that means people are not asking the right question. What might be more appropriate is "who's head are you planning to drop that on?". Still a stupid question to ask a commercial operator but at least begins to get of the heart of what I view to be the real issue - public safety.
The reason the FAA AND the DOT did the banal registration process is because of public safety (FAA actually needed DOT because the FAA cannot promulgate new regulations however the DOT, in the interest of public safety can).
Your comments in regards to "reasonable" are spot-on as well. Let's hope it gets expanded those that do it for various nefarious activities get the legal beat down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I believe this technology can save lives and I intend to use it that way. I just came up with another idea on how to save the lives of sharks and people swimming in their home. F*#k those Aussies and their cull - there's a better way.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 14, 2016 - 09:55am PT
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Apologies but I do not equate spurious government registration and a $15 stamp with a reduction of idiot operators. Not unless the registration stamp is lead and weighs 25 lbs including the adhesive.
There is a soft part of me that might be willing to accommodate registration in the case of commercial operators but even typing that makes me a little queasy.
Idiot operators are reduced when there are consequences for infringement on the rights of other people.
Having your drone shot down or being sued for any ignorant actions is a good place to start. And it seems the named lawsuit is a start.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 14, 2016 - 10:10am PT
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Aside from the reasonable, if not valid, purposes that Nature will pursue the real value of
drones is the expansion of a brave new world of tort law which Nature might not be aware of
virtually ended the general aviation industry until laws enacted by Republicans brought it
back from the dead.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 14, 2016 - 10:28am PT
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You would be correct in your observation regarding zombie tort law. This world of aviation and the FAA, as you know, is new to me. It's fascinating to say the least and never before in my life have I been involved in the political system like I am now (watching CSPAN sub-committee hearings, etc.).
I'd just like to see the FAA get their sh#t together and get Part 107 finalized. A guy can dream. (though at the same time the longer they take the better it is for me since we have FAA 333 Exemption and can operate commercially).
Check this one out: since the FAA is taking sooo loooong to finalize there is now legislation that is being proposed by a group of sUA advocates that is trying to supercede the FAA and put congress in charge - it essentially says you need to take a 1-2 hour online course and pass a test. I'm pretty sure the test is comprised of one question - "What does NAS stand for?". I'm so adamantly opposed to this it makes my blood boil (and it's not because of the $11K invested to get my PPL so that I can fly a small Unmanned Aircraft commercially).
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jan 14, 2016 - 11:10am PT
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I went out flying on Sunday, we contacted the tower at Mather, contacted the airport manager, contacted law enforcement. We are not 333 except, we are not registered, we are not AMA member...
We flew for hours without incident, we flew the pirate flag off the back of a car, we obeyed all regulations of the airspace as responsible users.
This is the golden age of drone freedom. Take advantage of it while it lasts. Like the 1950's in the Valley...it's over with now...ruined by fear and ignorance..
on the 19th I will be forced to register myself, not my aircraft. My personal info goes into a insecure and public database where it sits waiting for me to do something wrong. In order to register myself I have to check a few boxes, saying I will never do what I am currently doing and enjoying (FPV, BLOS, within5 miles of airports).
What have we done or the government or the FAA done to make you feel safe? Anything? Because all they have currently done in my eyes, is make me feel less safe...that is not why I pay taxes, that is not why I submit to the rule of law. I understand the greater good, I am a public servant, a US Army vet a free citizen...why it is that my actions or hobby is so threatening to you that regulation taking my rights away must be enacted?
Part of me wants just just go deeper, find new steal technology, hop my RF video and keep doing what I'm doing. We can you know, we can fly at night, we can use new channels, we can simply build new craft that cannot be caught. And we have enough passion for this to accomplish it.
what the FAA has done is take perfectly safe people and turn them into criminals and put them on a list, where civil disobedience is looking more and more favorable than playing a long with the law, and that is unsafe in my opinion, and that's why you need to meet them half way and have a common sense discussion resulting in regulations that step on no one's rights..it's simple..there's a million ideas out there on how to do it, but the FAA works in a vacuum of stall old man air...taken out to lunch by the aviation industry lobbyists with giant piles of money...is it any wonder that drones are being demonized by the very industry they are posed to replace? Come on..big fat duh...
Lemme ask you this, universally, not personally.. Do you think it's better to have people in helicopters flying around town chasing bad guys or reporting on the traffic? Or do you feel those tasks can be better suited to a drone where a soul is not at risk of falling from the sky and cratering? common sense right? that what we mean when we say common sense regulation and responsible discussions. It appears that the existing aviation industry wants to hold back progress, to hold back the drone revolution...but they cannot, they will not...it is the future, whether you or they or anyone hates it. Our children with come along, embrace drones, look at you like your idoits and they will make them better, they will work with them, not against them, and drone will improve every aspect of human life...like the dishwasher, the car, the airplane...it's another tool...and the result will be more leisure time for humans, to go off and do sh#t like climbing...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 14, 2016 - 11:18am PT
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Yeah, that's all well and good squishy. But the $15 stamp registration scheme will give jobs to a lot of people that didn't have them previously. Suck it up buttercup.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jan 14, 2016 - 11:27am PT
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lol, the drone industry and it's hyper market is already creating jobs, tons of them...we do not need regulation to do that, in fact the movers and shakers in the industry like me out here fighting it because these regulations will slow growth, not increase it. After the last media interview I received several notes from FPV and drone manufactures thanking me for what I say...the 15 dollars and the bureaucracy that will stand up to facilitate is all is public, and also expensive, believe me I am sitting in one right now (state office).
The registration is a simple online and insecure DB, there is minimal staff required to do any of the existing actions. Communications went out to all law enforcement in the country with a guide on how to look up the stuff, and they required people to all go to the website and reg. The 15 is waved for people like me, we are all grandfathered.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 14, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
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You're preaching to the Archbishop here squishy.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jan 16, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
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You're preaching to the Archbishop here squishy.
Naw, I'm trolling in the milktoast..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:06am PT
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I live 4.1/2 miles out at the end of a dirt road and would expect some privacy. If I google myself and do a tiny bit of digging there is an ariel shot of my house. that completly sucks. I totally dig model airplanes and find it fascinating to watch them fly. I have never owned one but watched them fly a few times and it's wicked cool. drones on the other hand are not about flying as much as they are about spying. I understand they have their good uses but for the most part a drone free sky is a good thing.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:18am PT
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how do you know it was an sUA that took the image? I'm not aware of google using anything other than manned craft.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 20, 2016 - 07:55am PT
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They acually drove out to our private circle with their car that has a shitload of cameras on the roof. Who or what took the photo is imaterial. it sucks. drones primary purpose seems to be spying. for the most part that sucks. great for inspecting power lines and hazerdous train wreck spills and fires etc. bad for snooping on private property. I think if someone had a sizeable property say 10 acers or more they should be allowed to aply for a permit to shoot down drones that violate their airspace by 200m ;)
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Redwood City
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Jan 20, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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drones primary purpose seems to be spying
^^^ This assumption is so dumb, ignorant, and narcissistic. No one I know who takes the hobby seriously, learns about drone flying, and spends significant time and cash to fly, is the least bit interested in flying over your mundane property or life . Most I know love the thrill of the (video) shot , flying long distance, or stunt flying ...
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jan 20, 2016 - 10:37am PT
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Wow, just wow...
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hagerty
Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
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Jan 20, 2016 - 10:43am PT
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drones primary purpose seems to be spying
^^^ This assumption is so dumb, ignorant, and narcissistic. No one I know who takes the hobby seriously, learns about drone flying, and spends significant time and cash to fly, is the least bit interested in flying over your mundane property or life . Most I know love the thrill of the (video) shot , flying long distance, or stunt flying ...
Perhaps if the manufacturers stopped calling them "spy drones"?
http://www.amazon.com/Striker-2-4GHz-4-5CH-Spy-Drone/dp/B00X6FMZTU
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jan 20, 2016 - 10:57am PT
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Are you people that naive?
Do you even know what kind of picture we get in the live feed? Here's an example...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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