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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"this is the future you chose"
If that guy were married, his husband would have put a stop to that.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Hopefully the blublackers and glimmers
keep chiming in so as to demonstrate
just how funda"mental"ism
can erode.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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his two proud Dad's are standing right there holding the crowd back for all to see their free-willing son:(
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Wrote: “The fact is that pedophiles are a separate species from homosexual.
That's your opinion. And Untrue!
I say: You are proposing that homosexuals and pedophiles are the same, and that this is NOT an opinion. For that to be true, we trust you to provide documentation including peer reviewed analysis from people educated in human sexuality (like psychologists).
Klimmer wrote: G-d obviously favored this Union. Who are we to judge here in the West with a divorce rate of 50% or more and now allowing Gay marriage? G-d's not fooled.
History has shown that we humans make very poor Gods, and when we shovel human beliefs and superstitions into God’s “mind,” we are being blasphemous and dishonest.
Why not leave God out of your judgments and evaluations? Have the sack to take responsibility for your own thinking and beliefs rather than ascribe them to God. This, by most any spiritual standard, is an exceedingly slippery slope.
JL
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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How you find this video,
or did you make it?
Keep typing blu,
it tells all.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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JESUS JUST FACEPALMED YOU, BLU
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Largo,
I respect you I do. Love your writing in climbing literature, and your history and making you're mark within the Stonemasters. Great respect.
But how is it that someone like you goes to a very well respected school of Theology, Claremont, and comes out not really believing in G-d? I know many who have gone through the same school, yet they believe and are better for that education, my Messianic Rabbi comes to mind. But then others like yourself leave G-d behind and really just don't believe any more. You're not the only one that has experienced this phenomenon.
Go to Theological seminary and come out a secularist. I don't get it???????
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Largo: Have the sack to take responsibility for your own thinking and beliefs rather than ascribe them to God.
No arguing with Largo here...spot on.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Boy-lovers are sometimes accused of speaking for boys, rather than allowing boys to speak for themselves. This accusation has always struck me as unfair. If boys ~ and children in general ~ are denied a voice about matters of concern to them, this is not the fault of boy-lovers, but of the heterosexual authorities, and even of the adult lesbian and gay movement, which often formulates its goals as though gay children did not exist. Nobody ever bothers to ask children what they think about government efforts to cut back on child advocacy and child welfare programs, to set an arbitrary age at which they are allowed to have sex, to draft them to die in far-off wars, and so forth. Children are never consulted about sex education, efforts to censor books in school libraries, the right of young people to employment and a fair return on their labor, or whom they wish to live with. Younger people are powerless. A diminishing segment of American society, they are denied the vote and say-so over their own lives.
Adults are always presuming to speak for children. Nobody bats an eyelash, for instance, when adult feminists speak for young girls, asserting that this is their right since they are addressing their own past experiences as girls. Perhaps in some measure they have a right to do so. But by the same token, why should not men be able to address the experiences of boys, since after all they were once boys themselves? Often, critics of boy-lovers appear to follow a double standard designed to deny the validity of the boy-lover's experience just because he is a man. In reality, being male gives one a special insight into the experiences of other males, whatever their age. The arrogance here lies with the critics of man/boy love, not with boy-lovers. A more tolerant and understanding population would be difficult to find.
The North American Man/Boy Love Association has always provided a platform for boys to voice their views on the issue of man/boy love. With the exception of gay youth organizations, probably no other group has made a greater effort to do this. Boys have participated in our conferences, on panels, in public forums, on the radio, in NAMBLA contingents in demonstrations, and in interviews with the press.
Nevertheless, while NAMBLA listens to boys, and struggles against ageism within its own ranks, it is true that most adults and state institutions turn a deaf ear to their voices. This pamphlet is a modest effort to correct that. NAMBLA will consider expanding the pamphlet in future editions if more boys are stimulated by it to send us statements about their own experiences.
The statements presented here are in the boys' own words. They have not been edited, except for minor punctuation and spelling alterations. Some of the boys requested that their name and address be given. However, NAMBLA has decided not to give addresses, and names have been changed, so as to protect the boys and their friends from possible harassment by police or other heterosexual emissaries of the state.
Man/boy relationships are very widespread, and go on in virtually every American neighborhood. We make no claim that this compilation is "representative" of all boy experiences of the man/boy love relationship ~ though in many ways the experiences they describe are typical. Barely a dozen statements are published here. Some of the authors are gay- identified, others are not. The authors are multi-racial, and span the teenage years, but none are younger than 13. They tend to be concentrated on the East Coast of the United States. All the authors have been sexually active with men, so they do not address the thoughts and problems of the boy who would like to, but has not had the opportunity to, enjoy sex with a man. Perhaps these letters will communicate a sense of hope and self-worth to such boys, who may read them and realize that their fantasies and desires are indeed shared by others.
Not every boy who wanted to contribute was able to do so. Not everyone, for instance, no matter how old, feels comfortable putting innermost thoughts down in writing. For many, perhaps all, of the contributors to this collection, it was the first time they had ever done this. They did so because they felt strongly about the importance of speaking out. Theirs are authentic voices, and NAMBLA is proud to help make them heard.
NAMBLA is working to change public perceptions and laws about consensual sexual relationships between adults and minors. Today, the law and public prejudice make little or no distinction between a man who forcibly rapes a child and one who genuinely cares for and loves a boy. Some judges have condemned boy-lovers as being "worse than murderers," even though their only "crime" has been to share their body and affection with a boy in a friendship that includes mutually enjoyable sexual experiences. It is a shame that in American society, it is a greater crime to love a child than it is to beat ~ or even kill ~ a child.
NAMBLA believes that any child, regardless of age, should have the right to say "yes" or "no" to any person. The child should have the right to initiate the relationship, as he often does. He should have the right to enjoy and develop the relationship without fear of shame or ridicule, or of harassment by parents or police. Children should have free access to factual information about sexual relationships of all kinds, and the right to control their own bodies without interference from adults. No child is harmed by any consensual sexual experience, but children are harmed by society's condemnation and persecution of their bodily pleasures.
NAMBLA believes that children need more than just sexual freedom, but it also recognizes that the denial of sexual pleasure can inflict severe and lasting pain. It is not the proper role of the state to attempt to enforce private personal morality, nor to "protect" children from themselves by denying them exposure to homoerotic or other sexual pleasure, if they so desire. The state should stay out of private bedrooms. Unfortunately, as the current FBI and police repression against NAMBLA shows, the authorities do not hesitate to break up friendships between men and boys in their vendetta against man/boy love. The state flaunts its power over the ruined lives of innocent lovers. Only by standing up for our right to love can we ever hope to end this .injustice
David Thorstad
New York,
"love is love is love" and there's just hoards of men waiting around to love these boys:(
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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he fact is that pedophiles are a separate species from homosexual.
One's lust's doesn't define a species!
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Start talking about love
and look at the direction
blueblocr goes.
Very telling.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Largo,
I respect you I do. Love your writing in climbing literature, and your history and making you're mark within the Stonemasters. Great respect.
But how is it that someone like you goes to a very well respected school of Theology, Claremont, and comes out not really believing in G-d? I know many who have gone through the same school, yet they believe and are better for that education, my Messianic Rabbi comes to mind. But then others like yourself leave G-d behind and really just don't believe any more. You're not the only one that has experienced this phenomenon.
Go to Theological seminary and come out a secularist. I don't get it??????? It's an informed opinion! Would you rather someone form their opinions/belief/non-beleif on the basis of education or from a basis of blind faith!? No matter your position, I'd rather you form your opinion after being knowledgeable on a subject.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Klimmer,
The school of Theology used to be a hotbed for philosophical thought and world religions and there is a conga line of multidemoninational folks coming and going. Even amongst the Christian hardcore there is a wide variety of interpretations about "God."
Most everyone acknowledges that God is most easily and naturally encountered as an infinite, unborn, original phenomenon beyond description and quantification. Yes, this is slippery language, which is why symbols, myths, allegories etc. have traditionally been used to approximate the nature of "God."
So when you say I do not "believe" in "God," my sense is you are asking why I don't believe in the God you have in your mind - which is likely very different from what others believe or know or have encountered in a million wordless ways.
I trust you have a well-formed idea about your "God" and that you ascribe certain evaluations and definitions and so forth to said God, one being that gays and child molesters are selfsame. I question if this is not more Klimmer and less God.
We need to acknowledge that all manner of human villainy has been done in the name of "God,"and it usually boils down to us humans ascribing our own biases and judgements to a higher power, hoping to invest our own views with divine authority.
I simply say: Watch your step here. Many have wrought misery on people, claiming to know and to do God's will, on behalf of God.
Note that when I invited Blu to provide ANY documentation from experts in human sexuality that suggested child molesters and gays were selfsame, he was able to provide no such thing. Why do you think this is so?
JL
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Right now I be driving and using phone. I'll search for ya when I get home.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Feel THE Love.
Can you find the typo?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Damn. Who's reading the text?
JL
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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My congratulations to you, dear Americans.
In time it will become a non-issue.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I say: You are proposing that homosexuals and pedophiles are the same, and that this is NOT an opinion. For that to be true, we trust you to provide documentation including peer reviewed analysis from people educated in human sexuality (like psychologists).
Mine was an attempt at a conversation with Ken's overtly wild speculation. I didn't hear you ask Ken for any "professional" validity as to his opinion. But that's OK, there isn't much really that I can find. Science only just recently started to theorize as to homosexuality being gene driven. But at the same time Science knows that the environment has as much to do with gene mutation as cross polenization. So there's that.
Certainly I'm not conflating all homo's are pedophiles, or visa versa. That,s rediculusness.
Undeniably there has been a small percentage of mankind, where mostly aging adult men have lustful desires for the young immature psych of children. Not many women share in this. So to call old men who seek sexual pleasure whith underage girls as heterosexual, and old men who seek lust fully after underage boys as homosexualality, seems appropriate but lacking.
Societies elsewhere have found these activities to be lawful. Wouldn't seem hard since children haven't much of a voice.
Hopefully videos like the one above of the 10yro boy twerking will bring public attention to the exploiting of children sexualality.
Maybe Science will provide some answers as to why? Doesn't seem like many want to hear the religious reasons.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Can't punctuate and goes
on and on about man on boy.
Your books teach
you that?
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