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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
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How does the atheist / naturalist / progressive make sense of the crazy sh!t just posted last page?
Here's Sam Harris, taking an evolutionary ecological perspective:
"We have barely emerged from centuries of barbarism. It is not a surprise that there are shocking inequities in this world. It is hard work to climb down out of the trees, walk upright, and build a viable global civilization when you start with technology that's made of rocks and sticks and fur. This is a project and progress is difficult."
At least it helps put it in context.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
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Pam wrote,
"Of all characteristics, humans are followers. This was a safety measure, perhaps, during evolution, but it is now an egregious defect." -Jerry Coyne blog
Yes, agree.
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Richard Dawkins: "Christian atheist" or "Jewish atheist" ?
You decide...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Don't you think traditional Islamic ideology is something of a window onto traditional Christian ideology? I do. Makes sense, they're both Abrahamic religion.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 15, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
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Who/what created the infinite God, and who/what created the who/what...and on and on.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Sep 15, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
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Carl Segan had many fine points… Here's just one of them:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
More Antitheist than I was before.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
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What's clear from your post is that you are the "nonbeliever" in the powers of evolution via natural selection.
Bone up on evolutionary theory, then you'll believe. And it will be a reason and evidence-based type of believing. Which beats blind baseless believing every time.
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Many an atheist to evolutionist still needs to learn to reframe the conversation in their terms.
Learn to recognize religious snarewords and religious rhetoric. Don't fall for it. Then, for a change, you can lead them in defining the conversation, not the other way around.
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Great vid Jingy, I'll have to check out the rest in this Sagan Series.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
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Malemute, thank you for being one of the few in the progessive secular non-theist community to bother enough to distinguish between the many and various god concepts of old.
I only wish more atheists were literate enough across the disciplines - history to theology in particular - also lingusitics to rhetoric - to realize when they argue with traditional Christians (aka Christian theists) the "God" under inquiry is Jehovah aka Yahweh (or His Son-God Jesus) and they should (a) confine their arguments and (b) hold the Christians to this specific "God."
Then again, one atheist or two around here just enjoys the on-going atheist-theist battle for ever and ever. Or so it seems. "Post and be heard. Forever and ever." His battle cry? His claim to fame? :)
"Jahweh" - that's funny spelling, I like it.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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Khanom,
We've tried to relate with you the proof we have to all the answers of the universe. But it can't be told it must be experienced... If you are sincerely interested I live on Sunburst Street email me and you can come over for an eye to eye conversation. So far you just told us how naïve or stoned you are. Our explanation is not "crap happens"that's what you chose to hear. A inorganic spark hitting organic matter and turned into a worm which turned into a fish which turned into a bird etc. which turned into you "that's crap"
Jingy
Look at this dot.. Stare into it this is your brain on drugs.
Did you just watch the movie or did you listen to the words? "Our preferences don't count " "we do not live in a privileged reference frame" I give you more credit than that. you should be thinking more highly about yourself. Instead of being high thinking only of yourself.U dont have to live with this defeated atheistic point of view...
I'm Back
BB
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:12pm PT
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Never underestimate the collective power of the human imagination.
I spent several intense years searching for "God" and in the end concluded that it/He/She/whatever was naught but the product of imagination created to either explain the confusing or assuage the masses.
BTW - bearded sandal wearing semi-white guy didn't exist before the printing press.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
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How do we know god can create intricate designs? We are supposed to be created in his image, but we can't even get straight something as trivial as health care. How much design does it take to decide giving someone a monopoly is not the path to a free market? And god created something as deficient as us?
Jody your basic premise that god is perfect, is fatally flawed.
And don't get all twisted up in arguments over omniscience. Omniscience is probably not even possible. Just like absolute truth. When you tell us there is a god you had better be able to show us data that things happening around us are not guided by simple physical laws. Eg. things fall when you drop them.
If you do not do this, your argument becomes nothing more than, "Trust me."
I have something better to suggest. If after 2000+ years of looking, everyday, for evidence that god has done something in the world around us
no one has come up with anything.
Consider. When you get in your car you don't worry particularly about having an accident?
Why?
Because you have gotten in your car thousands of times with few to no bad results. Suppose you had been getting in your car every day for 2000 years. Wouldn't you say you did not particularly need to worry about an accident?
That's what I am saying. Nothing more. I don't need particularly to worry about god.
Why are you so different?
Why not spend the time you are presently worrying about god on making pictures and helping others?
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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No one has come up with anything.
All the evidence is there.
One must only use the correct tools.
Modern science uses the wrong tools for the job.
Thus they remain bewildered and blind ......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
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jstan wrote,
How do we know god can create intricate designs?
No free pass tonight, jstan.
To which "god" does your post refer? Unless you give "units" to your "god" it is a meaningless post.
If you're meticulous about language and definitions, prove it. And prove it from here on out.
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btw, theists (of Abrahamic religions) tire me; they are so tedious in their arguments. Arguing against them to atheists on an atheist thread is just preaching to the choir. I'd rather have a robust discussion among fellow secular progressives concerning ideas or strategies for moving forward in a post-Abrahamic world and solving, for example, the Abrahamic problem (esp among teenage males and "boy-men" of traditional Islam - I'm sure you've noticed of late) in the Middle East.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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Jody:
After the events of the past two days do you think Mohammed is something we might choose to worry about? And why do you think there might be cause to worry?
Something more important than the cost to you of gas.
Things happening by themselves is an interesting question. Since 1880 we have reached the point that we can calculate and predict with great accuracy what a large portion of the events around us in the real world will be like. That and our present understanding of the creation of the universe require only that events are guided by all their possible paths. If you will a democracy in the natural world.
I know it is unsettling to accept one does not know everything. Knowing everything is just omniscience, a myth. What might be a better metric? The intention that, by the time we die and disappear completely, we will be able to understand and predict things that could not be predicted when we were born.
HFCS:
I was not talking to you. I think I know to which god Jody is referring.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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I think I know which god Jody is referring to.
Yes, exactly, and apparently you just don't get it. You and Dr. F both.
The inertia of ignorance. Maintaining the talk of "God" at the sixth grade level. Shame.
Suffering fools. Aughh.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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Actually you are close Malemute. We are made of atoms formed in stars. So stars did in fact give birth to us. If we merely replaced worship of someone who lived not too long ago with the worship of stars some of the common concepts might become a little more accurate. Not a lot more though.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
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I think those who have a strong and fervent belief in gods have every right to do so.
Maybe they should not post on this ATHEIST thread, because they ARE going to be questioned and quite possibly "mocked".
Same as an Atheist posting on the Christian Life thread, you know there will be blow back
Stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat, or quit complaining when challenged.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
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Jstan
Big questions there. We are created in his image by the meaning of body mind and soul. Which is reflected from his father son and holy ghost concept. When Jesus died on the cross he said it is finished. With regards to his works and miracles for us to see. Now we must find him through reading his word and faith. "how much more reward for those who believe by faith then those who have seen him?". God saved us for the end of times because we were stronger and not susceptible to ego. Then those of early days who needed to see a miracle to believe. I do not worry about God I am at peace with the universe. I only worry that I don't say the correct things that may help you understand. With your lack of knowledge of the Bible when there's only been one book through all mankind that says that I am the creator and only I can give you everlasting life. Why wouldn't everyone want to read it I can't comprehend.
Jus address'in
BB
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:10pm PT
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Stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat
I'm in your kitchen dude and there's nothing in it.
It's frickin cold in here too. Are you frigid?
Only in Gods kitchen is it warm and fire is going.
In here the fire is out as your soul is extinguished.
Even a flame thrower can't do sh!t in here.
What me worry .......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
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or quit complaining when challenged
Perfect timing, funny.
T'was my thought exactly when I posted and then turned the page only to see jstan's post.
If you can't stand the heat, just don't post.
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No free passes for anyone.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
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...especially given Jahweh's ignorance of the universe.
From what cicumstance or certainty is that evident?
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 15, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
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must make you and all the other children all warm and fuzzy feeling.........
Yes yes
I love it when children are happy and full of life.
It makes the heart soar.
Instead of cold hearted frigid curmudgeon like you who needs a flame thrower to barely thaw out long enough to stay warm .....
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