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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Kudo's for sharing the outcome so far. It's useful information.
Curious what the terms of the Probation are. I'm purely guessing But I suppose it basically means nothing as long as you do not get into the same type of trouble again in the next 12 months. Or are there more strings attached?
If it is what I said above I'd take the deal. It does seem fair. Fact is to some degree you are at fault for some poor choices.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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5% is lower than 50%, at least.
Probably worth it to avoid risking a conviction on your record?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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If you don't take the $1K option then you're really stoopid. Or rich. Or an inveterate gambler.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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This is not a good place to look for legal advice. If you dont have a public defender, maybe there is a lawyer in Merced or somewhere who could evaluate your case for you, maybe pay a few hundred bucks for his time. For me the issue would always be that I have to tell potential employers about my "disorderly conduct" incident and I'd just rather not have something like that in my past.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Well he did say the agreement keeps it off the record. If that really is the case it seems like a good deal. A lawyer might be worth consulting as to how off the record it really is.
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WBraun
climber
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Pay it and be done!
Why?
What did he do wrong?
His partner called for a rescue he didn't ......
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Not sure that has much to do with the stuuupid American legal system. If it really does stay off the record (check into that). Fighting it may do the opposite.
Vast are the number of convictions in this country of folks who didn't do anything wrong. Regardless whether that is the case here.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Get an attorney to review the settlement. I can't see how you "keep it off the record" while having a 12 month probation. You DON'T get probation for infractions, you pay the damn fine and you're done. Someone is bullsh$tting you.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Having read and studied this incident, it really seems to me that while Chris was reasonably prepared and ready, his partner was not. His partner reached the end of his rope, and instead of simply ascending - which any halfway capable climber or rappeller would have done - he gave up and called for a rescue.
That wasn't Chris' fault. If Chris were to pay a fine, it should be much much less than what his partner paid.
But honestly, I don't see Chris as the one here conducting himself in a disorderly fashion nor creating a hazardous situation. I find it difficult to believe that a judge would consider him to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Thanks for keeping us apprised, Chris. And good luck, eh?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Probation means you can't leave the valley for a year. I'd take it. Hell, I'd pay for it. And you can't associate with any other newb rappers. ha
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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Well, let's see...
I had a minor thing when I was young and dumb, and it basically was a similar deal. Pay a fine, a year of informal probation (don't get in trouble again or you're hosed), and it stays off your record.
Paid the fine, stayed outa trouble, and all it shows is "case dismissed".
Hasn't had any affect on anything I've ever wanted to do, including travel to foreign countries, getting a commercial driver license with hazmat, and some other stuff that included thorough background checks by the feds.
And now I'm older and wiser and would have done things entirely different than I did as an eighteen year old dumbass, if I knew then what I know now.
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tiki-jer
Trad climber
fresno/clovis
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Thread Drift with photos! This device belongs to my friend and art gallery mate. He is a photographer and has climbed with Bridwell BITD. Also helped Madbolter install rap stations.
"Here are some images of my El Capitan No. 6, which I used descending El Cap, and the Glacier Point Apron (from the rail), among others. I was given this by the manufacturer and my friend, Tom. It worked great!"
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Some Random Guy
climber
San Franpsycho (a.k.a. a token of my extreme)
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Well, let's see...
I had a minor thing when I was young and dumb, and it basically was a similar deal. Pay a fine, a year of informal probation (don't get in trouble again or you're hosed), and it stays off your record.
Paid the fine, stayed outa trouble, and all it shows is "case dismissed".
Hasn't had any affect on anything I've ever wanted to do, including travel to foreign countries, getting a commercial driver license with hazmat, and some other stuff that included thorough background checks by the feds.
And now I'm older and wiser and would have done things entirely different than I did as an eighteen year old dumbass, if I knew then what I know now.
ditto that. i did community service and case dismissed. since then i've had numerous background checks by all levels of government (including the fbi and department of homeland security) and nothing shows up. but i was also NOT fingerprinted. most background checks include a fingerprint scan/search. if they have ur prints i'm not sure how that would play out in future searches. they search by fingerprints and/or full name and date of birth.
Having read and studied this incident, it really seems to me that while Chris was reasonably prepared and ready, his partner was not. His partner reached the end of his rope, and instead of simply ascending - which any halfway capable climber or rappeller would have done - he gave up and called for a rescue.
That wasn't Chris' fault. If Chris were to pay a fine, it should be much much less than what his partner paid.
But honestly, I don't see Chris as the one here conducting himself in a disorderly fashion nor creating a hazardous situation. I find it difficult to believe that a judge would consider him to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
i forgot all the details of the predicament at hand, but didn't chris have another rope on him along with all sorts gear at the time? it could be argued that he could have fixed a line and gone down to rescue richard himself. no? the only major obstacle was getting him back over the great roof. it could have been done no yosar needed.
if u are going to fight this what u have to do now is rap the nose solo, complete it successfully, post a trip report, and then go to the judge and show him that it was all richards fault. that should get u off scott free.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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But honestly, I don't see Chris as the one here conducting himself in a disorderly fashion nor creating a hazardous situation.
Well, he did choose to go up there, or down there, with a moron.
Doesn't that in itself create an unsafe condition?
That's why I was never offended when asked to sign a disclaimer for my less discriminating partners.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Doesn't that in itself create an unsafe condition?
As a legal matter Chris was charged with disorderly conduct. It is the only regulation that they can charge, as it is currently legal make mistakes on a climb or in this case, descent. Somehow they twist the language of the regulation into a pretzel. The reg says that disorderly conduct is actionable if it creates an unsafe condition. Sort of a chicken/egg situation, The "disorderly conduct is imputed in hind sight after the unsafe condition arises.
I would have fun cross-examining the governments witness. Who would be the witness? YOSAR members or the LEO who wrote the ticket? Did the LEO go up to rescue them? Has the LEO ever climbed? How many rescues does the LEO do every year? you get the idea, the regulation is aimed at the ahole who starts a fight, not a climber who gets in over his head. I think it is BS to criminally charge as a means of revenue generation. If they want to pursue rescue costs they should do it as a civil action. There are a few reasons they try to do it criminally and it bothers me.
As charged, disorderly conduct it is a big time loser for the prosecutor. Question is, how many trips to court until they drop the case.
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WBraun
climber
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Did the LEO go up to rescue them?
Every YOSAR incident is an LEO response and under the jurisdiction of LEO.
YOSAR is branch of Yosemite Protection Division (LEO).
Half the VALLEY LEO are very good climbers.
Some can lead 5.12 and have done El Cap some have done Nose in a Day and Half dome in a day.
Valley District Ranger has done many walls NIAD Half dome in a day and many free climbs.
You guy are dreaming.
Valley Rangers are all hard core athletes now.
No more donuts ......
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Googlymoogly
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
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The officer didn't actually write the ticket but had another office write it in her name (which sounds sketchy to me). This is the conversation when she gave me the ticket, "Your more experienced so this is your fault. You put a lot of people in danger because of rockfall potential. You are being cited for creating a hazardous condition and it will have a mandatory appearance in the valley." She walked away then. The guy who wrote the ticket was at least reasonable and actually corrected her by telling me I could in fact get the appearance moved if I wanted if I just called up the CVB in a few weeks. It was obvious she was getting enjoyment out of issuing the ticket.
I was surprised she specifically mentioned rockfall since A) nobody was below us on the route and B) I assume she will be quick to change the story in court.
An article on her says she "rappels to victims" but maybe that means being lowered. She was definitely not a member of the rescue team though.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Rockfall? That seems to be a rather specious claim. How is rappelling - or getting stuck on rappel - any more likely to create rockfall than climbing?
And if there was nobody beneath you, how could you be creating a rockfall risk?
If that's her case, it makes no sense.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Feb 10, 2013 - 12:50am PT
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Why?
What did he do wrong?
His partner called for a rescue he didn't ......
Have to respect your opinion WBraun. You would know better than just about anyone.
Personally, I feel that if I was in the same situation, I would assume some liability for partnering with an incompetent and making a choice to RAP THE NOSE. Seems like Chris was a part of the situation here and $1000 seems fairly inexpensive considering the apparent cost of the rescue. Fighting the government has never really worked out for me so maybe I am a bit jaded. To me $1000 bucks seems like a pretty good deal for being alive.
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