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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
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The statistics on justifiable self-defense shootings vs. accidents, homicides and suicides are pretty lobsided. The risk/reward of having guns in the house is hard to reconcile (at least for me).
I think people should be allowed to have guns, but it seems like we could do more to reduce the collateral damage. Modern weapons have really changed the dynamics.
I don't own a gun, but I have shot several different varieties. There is something to be said for education and first hand knowledge of what guns are capable of. They are a very serious responsibility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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Michael, I was being sarcastic
I agree with you
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
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You don't have to fly...
Therefore your 4th amendment wouldn't be violated.
You don't have to own a gun ...
Therefore your 2nd amendment wouldn't be violated.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
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The second amendment would still be violated, even if I didn't own a gun.
Your arguments are kinda whack.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
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To be clear - I'm not advocating for anything (e.g., anyone have nuclear weapons). My last post was merely posing a question. I'm curious about the nuance of it all.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
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Best post of this thread goes to Alona Day.
Every point was right on target.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
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You mean this Crimpie?
If guns aren't dangerous. Then nuclear weapons aren't dangerous either. Why do we care which countries have them then?...
Guns ARE dangerous...in the wrong hands.
Just like nukes.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jul 25, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
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I'm sitting here considering the ramifications of my ignorance and contemplating going out to my garage and beginning the process of preventing cholera, however the problem remains that some careful balance has to be struck between the protection offered by weapons and the inherent danger they create in a civilized society.
Arming the incompetent, the foolish and the mentally ill is at least as tragic as disarming the general public.
Guns in the hands of good people is probably a good thing but doesn't that require regulation, licensing and training?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
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Guns ARE dangerous...in the wrong hands.
Just like nukes.
Yes, Shack, you noted the comment I posted. I could be clearer if I wrote it again.
I am curious about those who state that guns are not dangerous (and understand many do not feel that way). If one feels that way, I am curious if that thought extends to nuclear weapons. I ask out of genuine curiosity.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
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Guns in the hands of good people is probably a good thing but doesn't that require regulation, licensing and training?
Over 18? go in, tell them you want this rifle, write down your name, and Driver's License number.
Come back in 10 days if you're in california.
New rifle. Go play.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:41pm PT
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Why on earth does the government require somebody to get a "license" to drive?! Now that's some government intrusion. Hate the nanny state.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 09:57pm PT
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I've already forgotten about the Colorado massacre. Let's start this up again when the body count exceeds 12.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
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Even if statistically, gun control doesn't lead to a measurable decrease in murders, suppose it prevents even one murder? Wouldn't it be worth it? If the guy had not been allowed to purchase semi or fully automatic weapons, it would have been much harder to do mass killings.
I would not prohibit gun ownership, not possible, but put automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the same category as hand grenades, artillery, missiles and nukes.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:59pm PT
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Second amendment?
Your arguments are kinda whack.
YOU ARE STUPID.
I wondered who this was made for, now I know who.
Only problem is, it might not fit in there with you brain.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 25, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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Excellent post Emon.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 26, 2012 - 12:43am PT
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He's gonna take all the guns and put a shotgun in your bigass!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 26, 2012 - 04:46am PT
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From the Harvard Magazine article:
"Though assault weapons have attracted lots of publicity from Hollywood and Washington, and NRA stands for National Rifle Association, these facts mask the reality of the gun problem, which centers on pistols. "Handguns are the crime guns," Hemenway says. "They are the ones you can conceal, the guns you take to go rob somebody. You don’t mug people at rifle-point."
And America is awash in handguns. Canada, for example, has almost as many guns per capita as the United States, but Americans own far more pistols. "Where do Canadian criminals, and Mexican criminals, get their handguns?" asks Hemenway. "From the United States." Gang members in Boston and New York get their handguns from other states with permissive gun laws; the firearms flow freely across state borders. Interstate 95, which runs from Florida to New England, even has a nickname among gun-runners: "the Iron Pipeline."
"We have done four surveys on self-defense gun use," Hemenway says. "And one thing we know for sure is that there’s a lot more criminal gun use than self-defense gun use. And even when people say they pulled their gun in ‘self-defense,’ it usually turns out that there was just an escalating argument—at some point, people feel afraid and draw guns."
Hemenway has collected stories of self-defense gun use by simply asking those who pulled guns what happened. A typical story might be: "We were in the park drinking. Drinking led to arguing. We ran to our cars and got our guns." Or: "I was sitting on my porch. A neighbor came up and we got into a fight. He threw a beer at me. I went inside and got my gun." Hemenway has sent verbatim accounts of such incidents to criminal-court judges, asking if the "self-defense" gun use described was legal. "Most of the time," he says, "the answer was no."
Ask criminals why they carried a gun while robbing the convenience store and frequently the answer is, "So I could get the money and not have to hurt anyone." But as Hemenway explains, "Then something happens. Maybe somebody unexpectedly walks in, or the storeowner draws a gun. Your heart is racing. Next thing you know, somebody is dead."
Researchers have interviewed adolescents in major urban centers, where many inner-city kids carry guns. When asked why, the reason they most often give is "self-defense," adding that getting a gun is easy, something one can often do in less than an hour. Yet when researchers asked a group of teenagers, more than half of whom had already carried guns, what kind of world they would like to live in, Hemenway says that almost all of them replied, "One where it’s difficult or impossible to get a gun."
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 26, 2012 - 09:56am PT
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I now have to clean coffee off my keyboard and monitor....
You have to love non-biased 'articles' like that.
"Ask criminals why they carried a gun while robbing the convenience store and frequently the answer is, "So I could get the money and not have to hurt anyone."
hehehehehe....
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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Jul 26, 2012 - 10:37am PT
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That magazine article is very interesting. This bit from the article is off topic, but revealing in its own way:
Many suicides, similarly, are impulsive acts. Follow-up interviews with people who survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge reveal that few of them tried suicide again. One survivor volunteered this epiphany after jumping: "I realized that all the problems I had in life were solvable—except one: I’m in midair."
Oopsie!
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