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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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I take it from your answers, war, that you have no criminal foreclosure cases either, despite some very agressive DA's who would love to go after the banks.
John
John,
please dont confuse war and the OWS crowd with facts. facts get in the way with all that pent up anger and stuff...
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
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I find the Democrats' attempts to identify with the Occupiers curious at best, and indicative of their lack of any clue about what to do -- and their sole hope being to get elected through jealousy and envy.
Mercy John.. Don't let wars negative attitude fool you.
the tea partiers had big money behind it.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
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Such Typical partisan BS
Dr. F, we know you would never engage in typical partisan BS....
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Dr. F,
i voted for obama. figured he was better than the alternative. our current political party choices are dumb and dumber.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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There is little difference between the Occupy Wall Street bunch, and the teabaggers, except that the latter have a two year head start, and major corporate backing. Each group in its own way believes that the system needs to be repaired, although the teabaggers' links to the business and Republican establishment make their legitimacy questionable.
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
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Despite the best attempts of the MSM to descredit them, the Tea Partiers came by the millions, assembled legally and peaceably, had specific demands, and successfully elected politicians committing to executing those demands.
When you refer to "MSM" exactly what does that mean? It's a term only used by the right, particulary Fox News, the largest (by viewership) news organization. So what makes media "mainstream?" And how did the "mainstream" media attempt to discredit them when the largest media organization was actually in full support?
Whenever I hear someone use the term "MSM" it's pretty clear to me they never gave much thought to what they even mean their own words. This particular term is used only by folks who parrot right wing talking points.
The Tea Party was nothing more than a political funding effort - not much different than the process that existed before this "movement" existed. Big corporations have been successfully electing politicians for a long time. The only thing different about the Tea Party is that there were a few demonstrations organized as sideshows (and there was nowhere near "millions" at any of them.)
The real distinction between the Tea Party and the OWS movement is that OWS is genuinely grassroots - there is no corporate money behind it, and no professional strategists and PR firms developing the message. So it's not surprising that OWS is more chaotic and likely less effective.
Ironically, the goals of the Tea Party and OWS have much in common, but it's unlikely that we will see any unification of the two groups. American politics is too polarized and too many people choose to argue for side rather then understand the substance of the actual issues.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
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Crimpie, an "illegal" foreclosure may be simply an invalid foreclosure. If there is some contractual infirmity, forelcousre under that contract is "illegal."
The issue posed by war was one of criminality. That's an entirely different matter. An unenforceable contract is an illegal contract, but it doesn't automatically give rise to criminal liability. As just one example, under section 2924c of the California Civil Code, a lender cannot advertise a trustee's sale under a deed of trust until three months have elapsed since the recording and service of a Notice of Default. If the lender tried to conduct the sale too early, the sale would be illegal, but the result isn't a crime; the lender simply has to go back and re-notice at the right time.
None of the cases cited involved criminal prosecution and, contrary to war's contention, any state attorney general would give his or her eye teeth to bring such a prosecution. In fact, many state's attorneys general have done so, because the foreclosure procedure in those states involves filing suit and filing affidavits in court. The "robo-signing" cases involve filing false affidavits that state that the purported signers read documents they never even saw. In California, there is no such requirement because almost every foreclosure -- and particularly on residences, does not involve a court action. Accordingly, I am unaware of criminal prosecution for any foreclosure law violations.
I know in war's world the rich rule everyone else, and the evil Bush administration can order state attorneys general around. In the one in which you and I live, it doesn't happen that way.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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downright niggarly
Um, I hate to be picky, but the word is "niggardly." A misspelling here could lead to embarrassment or worse.
John
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Oct 12, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
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Thanks John!
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
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Is Joe the Plumber one of the 53% ?
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Gene
climber
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Oct 12, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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I have read parts of this thread and even posted a few times. Some have made thoughtful points and stated their views &/or grievances. Although I won’t guess the ratio, the screw you/no screw you content exceeds reasoned dialog by far. Bad stuff is all around us. This economy has made my one-person business dry up and blow away. Lots of hurt out here.
How can we as a community, country, even world ever find our way out of this mess if we focus primarily on blaming, belittling and bitching about those whose views we don’t share?
Is there any common ground upon which solutions can be built?
Serious question.
g
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
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Is Joe the Plumber one of the 53% ?
Yeah, prolly.
Gene, I'd say yes. There is common ground to be had. Which is why I identify more with Tea Partiers than OWS types.
I feel like the TPers were more honest and represented a kinder, yet just as frustrated glimpse in to everday America.
While the messages seem similar they do have juxtopposed positions in some areas.
TPers don't want mandates, don't blame bankers for problems (generally), and aren't socialists. They actually want lower taxing, personal responsibility, and less gov't intrusion. Not more.
To blame the banks for the bailouts is shortsighted without having equal disdain for Obama Stimulus and Fannie/Freddie and Acorn.
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Jorroh
climber
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Oct 12, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
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elezarian said
"Crimpie, an "illegal" foreclosure may be simply an invalid foreclosure. If there is some contractual infirmity, forelcousre under that contract is "illegal.""
exactly John when I "robbed" a bank last month it was really nothing more than an invalid withdrawal...I still don't see what all the fuss was about.
Its just as well that our legal system is such a paragon of objectivity, especially for those of us with a bit of money.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 12, 2011 - 07:59pm PT
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weschrist and jorroh, you guys crack me up.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Oct 12, 2011 - 08:41pm PT
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Some of the foreclosures have occurred with incomplete or missing paperwork, but in almost every case the homeowner has failed to make several payments and is subject to foreclosure. The loans were sold so often that the paperwork is in the shuffle.
The missing/incomplete paperwork is a result of 2 factors:
1) Real paperwork is not conducive to the process of loan securitization, where docs have to be sent all over the place as securities are traded, and after a while nobody knows which security the papers belong to
2) Because of (1), Mortgage brokers used the MERS system (mortgage database) as the primary system of record, which is far more efficient and accurate. The problem is, now that the sh1t has hit the fan, the courts are interpreting the laws strictly so that the mortgage papers are the only legal system of record.
FT is correct though, NONE of this is about unwarranted foreclosures. Banks and Borrowers both made bad decisions- the banks are really the ones holding the bag now though with something on the order of a Trillion dollars worth of bad loans, probably worth $0.30 on the dollar on average. Most of this has still not been written down.
The Tech bubble did not lead to an extended recession/depression like we are experiencing now, primarily because the losses were absorbed by individual shareholders, not the banks. Banks are leveraged and they have a tight profit margin for home loans. A 70% loss on a loan destroys a lot of capital that could be loaned out to a small business.
Another factor that led to sloppiness is that the mortgage servicer is rarely the same institution that owns the loan, so incentives are distorted.
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Gene
climber
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Oct 12, 2011 - 08:47pm PT
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the banks are really the ones holding the bag now though with something on the order of a Trillion dollars worth of bad loans, probably worth $0.30 on the dollar on average. Most of this has still not been written down.
True dat!
Policies about loans on the books can be characterized as:
Pretend and extend.
Pray and delay.
A rolling loan gathers no loss.
There's more coming, Folks!!! $Trillion might be low given the amount of commercial RE loans due.
g
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Oct 12, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
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Mt. 25:31-46.
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite you in, or naked, and clothe You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' Then they themselves will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcuGBQWswg
How Much Is Enough Lyrics
The Fixx
How much is enough?
Good enough, is not good enough
Don't complain that you've got it tough
With all you have, your life's a bore
Can't relax, you want so much more
Blind needs won't set you free
Can't you see that time is slipping away? But I got to say
How much is enough? When your soul is empty
How much is enough? In the land of plenty
When you have all you want and you still feel nothing at all
How much is enough, is enough
Gravity may bring you down
But harmony could spin you 'round
Information ariel says buy buy buy material
Give take all day long
Can't you see it's hopeless being strong
When you live it wrong?
How much is enough? When your soul is empty
How much is enough? In the land of plenty
When you have all you want and you still feel nothing at all
How much is enough? How much is enough?
Buy buy buy, buy buy buy
So give me your attention, I know it's getting late
While we were dreaming, something slipped away
We're drowning in possessions, playing tricks with our minds
Lost from one another, baby put your hand in mine
Time is slipping away, but it's not too late
How much is enough? When your soul is empty
How much is enough? In the land of plenty
When you have all you want and you still feel nothing at all
How much is enough?
How much is enough? How much is enough?
When you have all you want and you still feel nothing at all
How much is enough? How much is enough?
How much is enough? How much is enough?
How much is enough? How much is enough?
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