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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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It was an analogy, guys... But a valid one. ;-P
If you prefer, I could substitute piss with chlorine... It's in tap water to disinfect, but even being exposed to it straight up will kill you damn quick, and in pretty painful fasion.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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One possible end state for the cores of the Fukushima reactors
They lowered a camera into the Three Mile Island reactor after it had been
cooled off and saw that more than half of the fuel assembly was gone.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
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I've just been reading Wikipedia's article on the Chernobyl disaster. It wouldn't have made any sense to me before but now it does thanks to rrrAdam's excellent background info here. Thanks!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
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One thing not mentioned that is obvious from the before and after photos of the countryside, is the amount of damage to the vegetation that the salt water in the tsunami did.
We've had a whole side of Okinawa turn brown for a couple of months from the salt spray of a 3 day typhoon. How much more difficult to grow anything in those fields now they've been soaked in salt brine.
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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In the international scale used by experts to rank nuclear incidents, Chernobyl ranked as a “major accident” or 7, the highest on the scale. Three Mile Island was a 5, an “accident with wider consequences.” Japanese officials have said they regard the Fukushima incident as a 4, an “accident with local consequences.” http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/03/earthquake-tsunami-nuclear-plant/
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico..waiting on spring days..
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
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Miss Jan, Not only that..think about some of the food items Japan exports...
This whole situation is so incredibly sad and overwhelming....unfathomable.
edit: Jan, where the tsunami hit, is that the main area of agriculture?
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:01pm PT
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I've just been reading Wikipedia's article on the Chernobyl disaster. It wouldn't have made any sense to me before but now it does thanks to rrrAdam's excellent background info here. Thanks! Yes, Chernobyl had NO containment structures at all. It was basically a dangerous flammable reactor in a tin shack.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
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Question -
if the power plant is made of boiling water reactor (e.g. steam driving turbines), why can't the overheated reactor still produce steam which drives turbines which provide electricity to run the pumps?
Until, of course, the reactor is too cool to provide enough steam to drive those pumps, but in that case, crisis averted.
What am I missing?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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Japanese officials have said they regard the Fukushima incident as a 4, an “accident with local consequences.”
IAEA is grading it a 6 today.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:07pm PT
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Given the relatively small amount of radiation leaked I'm surprised TMI ranked so high. The disaster potential was great but mostly unrealized.
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
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The Fuk nuclear plant disaster is in state of flux; eventually the truth will out; but it appears the situation hasn’t even stabilized. I can’t help but get this image for some on the forum:
On Saturday the 12th, Washington Post ran this graphic:
On Sunday the 13th, WP had amended the graphic without comment to this:Today the graphic is removed.
Good planning that as a country we've decided to put our long-lived nuclear waste where there is no volcanism or earthquakes:
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nature
climber
Mysore Karnataka India
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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Yucca Mountain is stable. everyone knows that. why... it hasn't been under water for at least 10000 years. or maybe 1000? plus... water runs uphill.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:30pm PT
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Where do you guys think we should put our nuclear waste if not Yucca Mountain?
Right now, it is stored in 100 different temporary locations, right near population centers, and it isn't going away on it's own.
(this is probably worth it's own thread, but I really am curious to know what the alternatives are)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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where the tsunami hit, is that the main area of agriculture?
No, that area of Japan mainly serves as a transportation corridor to the north. The distance between the ocean and mountains is not great as the photos show. Also, like most rural areas of Japan, the young people have moved out and the population is middle aged to elderly and often work in the fields more as a hobby.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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if the power plant is made of boiling water reactor (e.g. steam driving turbines), why can't the overheated reactor still produce steam which drives turbines which provide electricity to run the pumps?
Until, of course, the reactor is too cool to provide enough steam to drive those pumps, but in that case, crisis averted.
What am I missing? Short answer... Not enough steam, plus, it takes power to operate the valves to get steam to the turbines. Can't push start a nuke.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:07pm PT
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That before/after photo slider is a very useful and cool application of a simple widget.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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Not enough steam, ok, seems hard to imagine with all that excess heat. Yes, you need power to open valves, but throw a battery in the system, and you'd have power to open the valves before you had power from steam, which would then recharge the battery.
Obviously, this has something to do with the steam turbines themselves - I wonder if it would be possible to implement a smaller emergency steam turbine into the design - one that would only operate in the case of total failure (e.g. when they start using batteries).
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
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All these disasters are warnings from Mother Durga (Nature), and by them she confirms her eternal superiority over the illusioned plan makers.
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