What is "Mind?"

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Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 22, 2014 - 08:53am PT
Interesting interview of Tsoknyi Rinpoche. It certainly rings true to my experience. Meanwhile, here's another quote from him,which MikeL will particularly appreciate.

Rinpoche’s mantra: “Just because it’s real doesn’t mean it’s true.”
MH2

climber
Sep 22, 2014 - 10:25am PT
One thing I took away from my few years doing research for a medical respiratory white lab coat was an appreciation for the fundamental subtle complex magnificence of what happens during the seemingly simple act of breathing.


edit:

Knowing a little about the control and mechanics of breathing in no way subtracts from its beauty. The opposite.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 22, 2014 - 10:58am PT
I like this one better:

"Don't believe everything you think"
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2014 - 11:39am PT
Another good one is, "Feelings are not facts."

For my own process, when I can recognize that content is not agency, I find a kind of freedom from the rough spots.

J:
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 22, 2014 - 01:33pm PT

I found this article really interesting because for many years my meditation was physically and mentally challenging , especially doing long retreats where there is a lot of pain in the body and tiredness. After many years I started to feel some chi energy/associated with the breath in my lower abdomin and the sitting become significantly easier and the tiredness and much of the pain went away. As the chi enegry increased it was physically and mentally ecstatic to sit. In zen they don't put much emphasis on yoga type breathing as in guided techniques. Althought they do put emphasis on good posture which probably leads to correct breathing.

Breath and chi and chakras are really emphasized in Tai chi, Gigong and tibetan style. I think his idea/concept of the "enlighten body" has merit.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 22, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
Another good one is, "Feelings are mechanistic output."


Feelings together with thoughts help give us the control we need, as evolved living things, to stay alive in a rough and tumble world.

Don't take em for granted; when they malfunction, things can go haywire very fast. So appreciate them, along with their fidelity, at every opportunity. My two cents.
MH2

climber
Sep 22, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
Much merit, PSP also PP. Most climbers in a do-it-or-else situation will benefit from a few slow deep breaths. A bolt or good gear placement also help a lot.
WBraun

climber
Sep 22, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
“Just because it’s real doesn’t mean it’s true.”


It would never be real if it wasn't true ......
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 22, 2014 - 04:40pm PT
YEAH KANT was the MAN ((but I kinda like 'em on women, moreN better))((( doh!)))
and this is 3rd yr I can tell 'cuase thats when I wanted to climb more than graduate
At that same time the long strange trip was not over the hill story ees to come and gone
does any one follow ...... when walking is such a bitch...even an Illustrious,Herculean , can and does ..........fart .......... flame on... ala not to close to the gas eLmik mikeL
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 22, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
The sunglasses are for when Zeus sends down a bolt of lightning to your scepter, right?

Cool


;>)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2014 - 12:03am PT
Still working on the fine points. That wand is hard to handle.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Sep 23, 2014 - 12:20am PT
The blond in the crystal ball looks vaguely familiar. Don't get the "wand" too close to her.

A forensic close-up of the computer screen strongly reveals yet another on-going plagiarism.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 23, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
This jolly little thread needs a gentle bump . . .
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 23, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
Thanks, Jgill!!! I missed these responses and comments.

I'm laughing my a** off! So many funny comments.

And, yeah, Jan . . . that was hilarious.

Way to go, Largo.

(May the force be with you all.)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 24, 2014 - 08:22am PT
re: "illusion"

When do you call something an "illusion" - when it's 90% illusory? 50% illusory? 10% illusory? When it's 1% illusory?!

When is it justified?

The illusion of time. The illusion of self. The illusion of choice. The illusion of control.

The illusion of beauty. The illusion of love. The illusion of being in love, lol!


......

"Challenging the limits of human possibility"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/life-after-life-trangender-ceo-martine-rothblatt-builds-robot-bina48-mind-clone/

"Mind clones will be so useful..."
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Sep 24, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
Illusion means different things to different people. For a physicalist, an illusion is often anything that is not material. To a dreamer, visualizing themselves climbing El Cap might be an illusion, but it might get them up there eventually so that illusion is a very active force in his/her world.

As with a lot of things that escape our instuments, the aim is not to get a btter hold of them so we can get to measuring, but to learn how to use these slippery "illusions" to our own advantage, and to let go of the ones that don not pan out for us. This is more art than science, in many respcts, so those insisting on a more cut and dry, black and white approach will always cry foul. But trying to reduce a protocol to living to a list of credos or formula or an approved data stream will lead nowhere. Ethics has already wrestled this down in large part.

JL
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 24, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
re: on the "illusion" of consciousness

While Harris accepts the "illusion" of self, he rejects the "illusion" of consciousness.

In the main text...

It is surely a sign of intellectual progress that a discussion of consciousness need no longer begin with a debate about its existence. To say that consciousness may only seem to exist, from the inside, is to admit its existence in full—for if things seem any way at all, that is consciousness. Even if I happen to be a brain in a vat at this moment—and all my memories are false, and all my perceptions are of a world that does not exist—the fact that I am having an experience is indisputable (to me, at least). This is all that is required for me (or any other sentient being) to fully establish the reality of consciousness. Consciousness is the one thing in this universe that cannot be an illusion.

And back in the book endnotes...

Again, I should say that some philosophers, such as Daniel Dennett and Paul Churchland, just don’t buy this. But I do not understand why. My not seeing how consciousness can possibly be an illusion entails my not understanding how they (or anyone else) can think that it might be one. I agree that we may be profoundly mistaken about consciousness—about how it arises, about its connection to the brain, about precisely what we are conscious of and when. But this is not the same as saying that consciousness itself may be illusory. The state of being completely confused about the nature of consciousness is itself a demonstration of consciousness.

In Waking Up...

illusion - 54 hits
consciousness - 258 hits
spirituality - 36 hits
introspection - 7 hits
meditation - 84 hits

introspective - 0 hits
subjective - 14 hits

subjective experience - 3 hits
mental life - 1 hit (!)

modern spirituality - 0 hits
scientific spirituality - 0 hits
secular spirituality - 0 hits
subjective spirituality - 0 hits
introspective spirituality - 0 hits

Subtitle: "Spirituality without Religion"

Just as a person’s physical body and abilities can be refined — Olympic athletes are not normal — one’s mental life can deepen and expand on the basis of talent and training. - Sam Harris, Waking Up

discursive - 4 hits
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
Fruity, you really need to do what Harris did and get your ass into some retreats so you have some hard core experiential data to draw from. You've primed the pump to no end. Time to let it rip.

JL
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 24, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
Just as a person’s physical body and abilities can be refined — Olympic athletes are not normal — one’s mental life can deepen and expand on the basis of talent and training

Shocking revelation


Ground Control to Major Tom . . .


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