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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 19, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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Thank God my cells have the wisdom of the ancients.
Amen!
Some people think it's by chance you look like ur mom.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 19, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
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I wonder what Carl Sagan would think of Sam Harris?
i thought Carl was a scientist?
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 20, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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you must drive a Ford?
I loved the OLD Ford Explorers. Bought four in a row until Ford turned them into a cross-over piece of junk.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
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What ever else you can say about Sam, he's walked his walk and has brought attention and intelligence to alternative points of view that have to westerners long been considered the purest jive. Fascinating guy, and a good example of the fact that even when a hard-core scientist starts down the path of self-observation, their world is never the same. He is remarkably lucid about what I go on and on about in muddled ways.
JL
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MH2
climber
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Sep 20, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
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And even more broadly: whenever you do anything your world is never the same again.
Can't step into the same river.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Sep 20, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
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Among other things, I enjoyed Sam's stories from Nepal. The one about the rat in his hotel room in Kathmandu was similar to an experience of mine. He walked the walk in more than one way.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 09:42am PT
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JL: The mind’s intelligence permeates every human cell, extending into the environment and carrying with it the wisdom of the ancients (JL Link)"
Jgill: Couldn't make it past this point. Interest flamed out. Too much Woo.
If you believe in the theory of evolution, wouldn't you not say that mechanisms like intuition, digestion, and a number of other invisible or not-conscious processes constitute a "wisdom of the ancients?" Is DNA now "woo," too?
MH2: Thank God my cells have the wisdom of the ancients.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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I saw Sam in an interview with Dawkins and a couple other brainiacs and one made the point that it is necessary to separate the numinous from the supernatural. My understanding is that the so-called supernatural is real, but is is not "super" or beyond nature at all, but rather it operates in the experiential world. I think that people have a problem with the idea that the supernatural or spiritual exists outside of nature - though most of them have no problem subscribing to the idea that the belief that the objective operates outside of sentience, that you can parse reality apart like that, while always using sentience to vouchsafe the results or to 'know" as much. One wonders that if we can imagine things as separate, does that make it so, or if reductionistic thinking is simply a matter of selective focus.
JL
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 21, 2014 - 06:40pm PT
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wouldn't you not say . . . not-conscious processes constitute a "wisdom of the ancients?" (MikeL)
"wouldn't you not say . . ." ???
Yes, I would say "not"
Stretching the definition of wisdom a bit to include non-consciousness processes: Wisdom (sophia) is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight, with good intentions (Wiki)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 21, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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Wisdom (sophia) is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight, with good intentions (Wiki)
In the evolution of the brain, mind. Surely we've shown a Progression. As opposed to Diegression. Can't we call this "better response" to an effect, (as in cause and affect) Wisdom? Stored and Proven within our DNA..
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Sep 21, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
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Can't we call this "better response" to an effect, (as in cause and affect) Wisdom?
Mike has said all along that these are only words. So call it what you wish. Others might disagree.
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MH2
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
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Everyone has their experiences, which is what they are attempting to report.
Wisdom of MikeL
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
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Only dead men don't know what "Mind" is .....
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
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unlock the mind and soul. You can do it yourself, and see for yourself. You dont need to discuss it on the internet. Objective science is simply our collective delusion. Unlock your subjective experience. Do it the quick old fashion bitch slap kind of way with a hefty dose of psychedelics in the proper setting....alone, in silent darkness. Then you tell me what your mind can do, and where your soul is located.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
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Jgill: Mike has said all along that these are only words. So call it what you wish. Others might disagree.
That's a fair criticism. I did not mean for it to be understood quite that way. As before, words and labels are intrinsically problematical. This post provides me an opportunity to say something different.
I'm not saying that there isn't *something* there. I'm saying that the words and labels tend to make us think that we can (or have) nailed the *something* down.
Hey, thanks for noting my double negative. I was obviously confused in my attempt to say something significant.
I have a colleague staying with me here for the week. In talking about research possibilities, she's said: "Mike I understand that subjectivity is important in [our field], but it must be operationalized to get some papers published."
I'm thinking: "HA! Just how in the hell am I going to do that?"
Dead end!? (Sounds like a job for "Mr. Creative Man.")
What a weird world I live in. Who do I put a complaint into around this place?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
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MH2
climber
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Sep 22, 2014 - 07:41am PT
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No, no. Crystals are as real as it comes. I'm not too sure about God but I believe in crystals.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 22, 2014 - 07:57am PT
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An interesting interview with a tibetan teacher about breath and chakras
The first thing the mundane gross materialists lab coats will do is babble for years of how to measure and who did what, where and when.
Meanwhile on the battlefield of their own consciousness they lose the fight of their own self awareness and continue on their unconscious selves .....
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