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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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Well i am wrong for sugesting that the crapper was SG but that is also something that he brought on himself by being so venament against these guys. It simply looks bad.
I will stick to my guns on the rest of it though. If you are going to call these guys out the way you have there is realy only 2 honorable options left to you. Climb the rout or apologize.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 27, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
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I think a rap inspection would be a bad idea. It would say nothing about the quality of the climbing, but would allow ample opportunity to see any modification of the rock which could have come after the FA.
A ground up ascent is the only way to see what the route is all about. I suspect SG would be impressed with the difficulty of the climbing and see the route in a new light, just like Royal did on WOEML.
Please SG, climb it!!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 01:39pm PT
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Wes, that is so fckin weak... there is a pitch here in VT called the Great Corner 10c I have rapped it a few times and thought to myself. heck that ain't so bad. I have followed it a bunch of times and thought, that ain't so bad.. then I go to lead it and it kicked my ass!
If you are gonna bitch about how easy or hard or over bolted a climb is you either have to lead it or eat crow. There ain't no other fair and honorable solution.
You can't rappel a climb and then spout off about how easy or over bolted it is without acting like a totall ass. You can't even follow a climb and diss it with a clean concience. Realy simple stuff. Allways has been since the beginning of climbing. Lead it or STFU.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2009 - 01:43pm PT
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tradman -- SG's affair is not about how hard but about the "enhancements".
That's the sum substance of his "thing"
Or am I wrong?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 01:56pm PT
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Pretty much seems to be the entire rout. too many bolts, to many enhancements, not a valid line, etc, etc. etc. The bolt count has been a huge part of the triad. The only way to answer those questions fairly is to lead it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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SG has made a big stink about all aspects of WOS most notably that it has too many enhancements and bolts and took too long to climb as well as it not being a valid line.
I am only pointing out what he has bitched about.
Wescrist You don't have to do a climb to comment on the content of someones internet posts you nitwit....
You do have to do a climb to comment negativly about a climbs merits.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Nov 27, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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what coz said....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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I have a deep suspicion that the LEB house wife lady of old is long gone and the new LEB is a troll.. the style of posting has realy changed a lot in the last few months. its still long winded but just seems so diferent. Please don't bother to explaine as i realy don't care.
back to your question which is too valid to be an origional LEB question.
When a climb fails to see a repete ascent over a long period of time it is generaly for the folowing reasons.
#1 its too hard.
#2 it's too scary.
#3 too remote. to big of a hike etc.
Repeting a climb in faster time with less equiptment is realy not a fair judgement simply because the 2nd ascent does not have to do as much physical and mental work as the first ascent party.
If i build a road through the jungle in 3 weeks and you drive it in 3 hours are you actually better at road building than I am? its apples and oranges to a certain extent.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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LEB, leave the fixed hardware thing alone. Don't even go there. Its just too complicated. I do not think that WOS is all that remote? But I have never been there so WTF do I know. If it is not remote then we are talking about it either being too hard or too scary or both.
Talking about how it could have been done diferently is so much BS because it couldn't even be repeted the way it was done.
LEB. You are wrong in thinking that fixed hardware is bad. Without fixed hardware most of the climbs on El cap would not exist. many people have many diferent opinions about how fixed hardware is to be used. What is good and bad are simply diferent peoples opinions.
In this case NO ONE other than the FA party has a right to voice opinion on the merits or lack there of of the fixed gear on WOS because NO One other than the FA party has actually climbed the thing.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Nov 27, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?dcid=ODM8NTo8OCc,
OMFG..... 14000 posts?!?!?!1111169
And to think I've read a grand total of 2 of them.
-knott to mention the several hundred It made as howweirddean starting from just a few weeks after It "left for good"...
BTW, the new Magic Mouse is great - makes scrolling past It's long-winded posts a real breeze!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Nov 27, 2009 - 03:17pm PT
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Wanna bet?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
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Louis. Could it have been done better? the answer probobly is quite simply NO. The climb has stood the test of time. Allmost 30 years and no repete. For that type of climb this is the ultimate acolade. Its so bad assed that it never got repeted. Seems like a few folks made some excuses as to why they didn't do it even though they could have if they wanted to but that don't fly. Climbing in this regard has a black and white line drawn in the sand. Either you did or you did not climb it. Could have, would have, and should halve do not count in this sport. This is no diferent than saying you could have climbed the last 50ft of the summit mushroom but didn't.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:12pm PT
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All climbs are forced, Some just a bit more than others;)
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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if i could crap on a pile of these threads all coiled up at the base, i'd pound some peets and drop trou in a heartbeat
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:50pm PT
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I wish I could dig up the old thread where we went into excruciating detail educating LEB on "how climbing works" just more advanced than "How do you get the rope up there?"
Largo wanted to send her climbing with me.
The death of a thousand cuts continues....
PEace
Karl
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
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LEB, good posts, you are zeroing in...
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Nov 27, 2009 - 07:14pm PT
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I hope the bolt chopping can wait 'til I collect the SA bounty.... dry tooling is kosher, right?
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 27, 2009 - 07:17pm PT
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Oh I don't know about that. I thought this was all about WOS
"was"
and who the hell is longo?
that ol' r key is a lorg ways from that n key.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 27, 2009 - 07:55pm PT
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Ray,
You are like someone who comes to my house, and feeds my dog table scraps, thus encouraging it to beg, and continue behaviour nobody else finds enjoyable.
"The death of a thousand cuts" Laughing out loud at that one, Karl!
The person I thought might have been one of the shitters, emailed me to tell me he was knott one of the shitters, and said he'd tell me more in person in the spring.
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