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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 23, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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I fully understand those who want to know what happened, and I commend them for their patience.
The lesson to be gleaned now though is not one of a particular piece of gear that might fail, but rather that we MUST maintain vigilance of our safety systems.
Double check not only YOUR rigging but also those of your partner, and when she/he double checks you don't be offended. Be complemented and reassured of the concern.
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Robert Johnston
Trad climber
Woodland Park, CO
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Mar 23, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
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My heart goes out to everyone in Woody's life; his family, friends, companions... everyone.
Woody was an inspiration to me, through my childhood, teens and now as an adult. I was lucky enough to grow up knowing what it was like to be part of the "Climbing lifestyle", traveling with a group of tight friends having fun and enjoying the true meaning of "Climbing". This seems to be a part of Climbing that has been lost, Climbing has turned from a "lifestyle" to a "Sport" and most don't understand the true meaning.
To this day when my dad and I go climb or are sitting around shooting the breeze over a beer or glass of wine, Woody's name always comes up... we reminisce over climbs and good times we had with Woody and his close partner Mike Daughtery. I am always honored to listen to stories from the 1970's with regards to the good times spent between good friends; Mike Orr, Brad Johnston (My dad), Mike Daughtery (Spelled wrong, sorry Mike if you read this) and Woody.
Unfortunitly I never got the oppertunity to say thank you to a good friend and inspiration in my life. Although my time sent with Woody was limited (do to my age at the time) his presence in mind, body and spirit has always been with me through the years. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING WOODY!!!!
A quick story regarding Woody's character:
When I was 11 the group of us were climbing in J-Tree; Mike Orr, Brad Johnston, Mike Daughtery (Sorry again Mike) and Woody. Mike Orr was attempting to lead "Loose Lady" and kept backing off, my old man (Brad Johnston) tried to lead it and backed off... I step up and was being a pest... just wanting to try and lead the climb (I was 11 can you imagine how much of a pest I was), everyone was telling me "NO YOUR TOO YOUNG"... Woody bless his heart steped up and let me lead the climb, against everyone's will... I lead the climb successfully and Woody met me at the top to congradulate... we shared some conversation and Woody took my belay.
I am deeply saddened by this news... Just know Woody that you will always be with me, everytime I put those painful boots on I will think of you. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING AN INSPIRATION!!!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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We can only check knots so many times.
If its your time its your time.
I for one hope when my time comes I am doing something I enjoy.
Juan
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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Epicsaga wrote, "rockclimbing.com has censored and locked posts in the accident and analysis thread on Woody's death. Hopefully supertopo believes in sharing the facts of the accident so a future accidents might be avoided. "
As one of the mods at RC.noob, I just wanted to clarify a few things. First of all, I understand your angst regarding this issue. Although I never had the privilege to meet or climb with Woody personally, I was deeply moved by the initial reports coming out of J Tree.
As all Supertopoans are aware, RC attracts a different breed of poster than this site. That doesn't make them lesser personalities, just less informed and experienced as a rule; then again, we all started out somewhere, and thank God I didn't have the internet available in 1979 to tell the whole world what an inexperienced n00b I was. Somehow, we all managed to survive that and maybe even turn into decent climbers in spite of ourselves.
The Injuries and Accidents forum thread regarding Woody was locked after brief discussions in the Mods Forum, and although I was not personally available to add input during those discussions (backcountry overnighter)I do understand and support that decision. The thread had drifted off terribly following a bit of a personality discrepancy, and the severity of the climbing community's loss was being overrun by petty bickering. In fact, many posters were adding to the thread asking it to be locked and cleaned up, and that is eventually what happened as soon as the next available mod became aware.
All of the removed posts that added nothing to the discussion are currently residing in the RC Recycle Bin.
As promised, once the official report comes out, then the thread will be reopened for discussion. Blind speculation and second guessing make for grand theater, but in the end just muddy the waters.
It is important to note that a member of Woody's family had logged in to request such restraints, and that weighed heavily upon the decision to lock the thread.
From a personal standpoint, I offer my deepest and most heartfelt condolences to Woody's family and the Joshua Tree climbing community. You are all in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Loran Smith
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Ro wrote:
"The lesson to be gleaned now though is not one of a particular piece of gear that might fail, but rather that we MUST maintain vigilance of our safety systems.
Double check not only YOUR rigging but also those of your partner, and when she/he double checks you don't be offended. Be complemented and reassured of the concern."
In breaking down a lot of these accidents over the years, a majority are due to fundamantal oversights - basic, simple procedures gone wrong for many reasons, some inexplicable. It's this most basic stuff that needs most of our attention - just as Ron says above.
Few are saved through their ability to build super fancy anchors or the like. A kind of knucklehead approach - always checking everything - is our best bet every time.
JL
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
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Edge,
I think that most of us agree that the RC mods did the proper thing in locking that thread.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
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Robert Johnston - that's a wonderful story!
Thanks for sharing.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Mar 23, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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I lost neighbors - a man and his wife - Their high school senior daughter survived.
I don't think there was much to be learned from the accident though. Seemed like the classic failure to alter the original plan in the face of weather different than planned, deteriorating conditions, darkness. A chain of circumstances where there were several points to change the outcome with a better decision. The father was a professional. Captain - 747s for United.
Fuel exhaustion. Controlled the plane as best he could. Unfortunately there was no clearing where the plane landed.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 23, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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I think it's it's important to convey that nobody (at least knott here) is going to say:
OMG! How could he (or they) do such a thing! I would never let that happen!!!!!!!!!!!1111
When the details are finally known (and yes, they are VERY IMPORTANT),
what will be most remembered is that it COULD HAPPEN TO ANYONE
(and it still happens––and will still happen––year after year after year).
We are only human. It's human nature to screw up. Thank God I have OCD...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 23, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
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"Captain - 747s for United"
As the son of a retired UAL 747 captain and brother of two FEDEX captains, I did hear some tales of big-equipment pilots who fail to make the compensations necessary when flying smaller equipment.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Mar 23, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Yup. Like not having a partner to check out decisions.
He flew heavy metal in Viet Nam.
Sometimes I wonder if people just get the idea that they are invincible.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 23, 2009 - 06:53pm PT
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"...As all Supertopoans are aware, RC attracts a different breed of poster than this site. That doesn't make them lesser personalities, just less informed and experienced as a rule..."
You're obviously free to speak for yourself.
Curt
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
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This one time at rc.com a guy once tried to present the foot belay: you step on the rope for a belay instead of using a belay device. ;-)
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:20pm PT
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"...I looked at RC once, easy to see the difference in cllimber experience and maturity..."
We have a spell check function.
Curt
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
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"...This one time at rc.com a guy once tried to present the foot belay: you step on the rope for a belay instead of using a belay device..."
I call BS. Nobody could be that stupid.
Curt
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:25pm PT
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^^ LOL!
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:32pm PT
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Curt, I am not sure what you are implying here several posts up. Since you posted multiple times on RC(where you currently have over 14,000 posts; you must see some value in it?), calling for the thread to be locked, it seems like you got your wish. The intent of your post here is obtuse at best.
You are doing to this thread the exact thing that you decried on the RC thread.
Yes, fattrad, that was my point. More thoughtful posts here, for sure. I still believe that it is disrespectful to family to discuss this at such a delicate time until all of the official facts are disclosed. Particularly when family members request as much.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
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I am most certain that Woody never went to rc.n00b...too many bozo's over there. He spent his time on far more intellectual sites, such as political, news sites and of course, ST.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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> You are doing to this thread the exact thing that you decried on the RC thread.
Not really. Curt was just defending rockclimbing.com from some inaccurate criticism. (He is also definitely one of the voices of reason over there).
Most forums are subject to thread drift of some type. One thing I liked about rec.climbing was that you could retitle your subthread when it got too far removed from the original subject.
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Mar 23, 2009 - 07:48pm PT
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Clint, if that was indeed the intent, then I was mistaken, and I apologize to Curt.
I do, however, find that by sheer numbers, ST is a more informed and targeted audience than RC.
Not that it is a bad thing, just part of the food chain.
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