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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Ammon and Kait are both skilled and experienced climbers, including many ascents of El Cap. A question - has either of them previously taken a position as to the grate WoS controversy? Heisenberg reaffirmed that what is seen depends in part on the viewpoint of the seer. Climbers who know about the route's history but have an open mind may "see" whatever they encounter quite differently than climbers who have already made up their minds - not forgetting that 30 years of weather, and intervening attempts, may have changed what's there anyway.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I have definitely wondered about the "repeatability" of Wings of Steel, specifically because of the erosional effects of water running down the slab. But if Ammon can climb the first two pitches - of both starts - in good style, then the rest of the route should be climbable. It will be good of him to replace fixed drilled anchors, and also to correct the first ascensionists' mistakes where they had to place bat-heads.
After they dropped their bag of rivets, I am wondering why the FA-ists chose to put heads in the holes, instead of just drilling bathook holes? Was the rock overhanging at this point? I seem to remember it was late in the route, just before they joined Aquarian. I saw some stuff coming in from the right when I was on Aquarian last fall.
The viewpoint that Ammon has shared with me is that Wings of Steel is a sick hard bitchin' route, and I emphatically concur. If it were easy, it would have been repeated in its entirety by now.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Now we're talking, someone an objective SA by someone without old prejudices. I'll have to figure out how to deliver the goods I put up once the deed is done. Looking forward to the trip report. And given Ammon previously said it wasn't his cup of tea:
Ammon: "From what I have seen, the climbing is very challenging, BUT, it is very boring as well (to me). It took me a couple of hours to figure out where to go on the second pitch. I was standing in my aiders for twenty-five minutes trying to figure out what to do. To me, that is boring. From what I did see on the first two pitches was: It is NOT a bolt ladder like I previously thought. They used every possible features to climb the slab. No lack of balls, either. I took some pretty good rides and was impressed with how far they made their run-outs."
Something about it must have nagged on him in the intervening months for him to get back on now.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I offered Kait and Ammon a carry, but they said they had things well in hand. Ammon and Kait, beer and pizza from me this fall!
If you found an edge the size of a dime more than a few times on the first pitch, you have better eyes and fingers than me. Those edges are scary-sick-microscopic-insane. Gads, getting sweaty hands just thinking about it. Where's my chalkbag? Oh right, I don't own one any more.
Mark and Richard agree with the idea above regarding rivets not being able to hold falls. However such rivets might well hold falls when clipped using a Yates Scream Aid, which deploys at a constant force of about 275 pounds.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Well, whatever the hell is still left there on the rock, enough of it is left there to climb. At least by Ammon. Surely not me!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The nearest comparison to what's happening is the Dawn Wall. Robbins and Lauria repeated it in early 1971, soon after the first ascent. Robbins, at least, had made up his mind before even starting to climb - taking six cold chisels is pretty convincing proof of that. There had been no intervening ascents or attempts, and little time, so the route was in its original state. Robbins had the courage to change his mind part way up.
Another thing to recall is that standards, techniques and equipment have changed in the last 29 years. Even if it's all hooking, there have been changes in the types of hooks available, perhaps the metal, and things like taping down hooks. Did anyone do the latter in 1982?
The intervening 29 years, and some attempts or partial ascents, somewhat muddy the waters. Still, it will be interesting to hear what an apparently objective party finds and reports on.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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There USED to be a stack of them on The Column.
Ahem. Hey, I dunno. Z-macs aren't good fallin' gear, but they pass Body weight just fine. Only a user, not a Placer. Or replacer. Or OVER replacer.
Nevermind.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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unless it's being freed I don't see anything ground breaking here.
Aid climbing is stupid.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aid climbing is stupid.
I allways used to feel that way too. Then I did an El Cap route.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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^^^props^^^
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Thirty years,I know them both No BullShit! They are GREAT climbers.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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So five separate threads and what seems like a million posts, and we finally get something objective and sensible.
This part kind of sums it all up:
I know that I will get slammed for this, but if you aren't in the right group of climbers, your route may get held to a double standard. That is all I am saying. What is OK for Bridwell is not OK for others.
And this applies not just to El cap. Or to Yosemite Valley. But to just about every climbing area everywhere. Anyone who has been active in new route development in any major area has seen it, or been involved in it.
The only difference in this case is that it happened on the Holy Alter in the Holy Tabernacle in the Holy Climbing State of California. Therefore it gets ten thousand posts of anger and hate, attack and defense.
In the meantime, climbing has long since moved on.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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But to just about every climbing area everywhere.
It applies to just about everything, everywhere.
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Mimi
climber
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Mark and David, you are missing the point, my friends. We all know that most of the time, just about everything is known about what occured on a climbing ascent.
Jim isn't on here spraying and then lying about what went on nor or any of the other guys who had bad practices. We know who we are. All us diehards ever asked for is an accurate hole count. That's it.
To add, Kevin Thaw and two others posted their attempt to do it in a day. They reached P5, well past THE CRUX, and rated it modern A3. His main complaint was having to deal with rusting cables on the now ancient batheads and crappy zmac rivets.
Bear in mind this is an all-time low watermark with respect to style. 39 days and a half a ton of equipment to climb a variation to keep it all in perspective. I don't think Ammon and Kait will feel much kinship with the FA. LOL! But if it's any consolation, they'll probably shave a month off the time posted by Bwana. And Skid.
I just hope Ammon doesn't get so bored as to call it a day (it's hot up there). Robbie Slater bailed from P7 due to such heat. The simple fact that it's unrepeated in its entirety has created far too much sensation around this climb. Because once it's done, it gets an asterisk. LOL
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Let's get those shitters names out here! Yee haw!
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Do the History a bit, this is not known much but they are both good free climbers. What a bunch of bullshit this site is! Climbing is something you do for yourself , Not to empress ours.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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FACT BRA: 11 MIL ROPEZ MAKE FOR A NICE CLEAN WIPER.
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Mimi
climber
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"Do the History a bit, this is not known much but they are both good free climbers. What a bunch of bullshit this site is! Climbing is something you do for yourself , Not to empress ours."
dogtown, you're wrong. Sorry. If you're buggering up the place to impress others, and not telling the truth, then climbers consider this unacceptable. If that's what you meant by empress ours.
Mark H, sorry to see that Pete has shown you the way. LOL!
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Mimi
climber
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Pete, you are a goofball, the hole count has been a projection due to a total lack of a straightforward account from the Taskmaster and his Slave.
Since you consider yourself cock-of-the-rock up there, doesn't it frost your balls when a competent party rates something modern A3 and you can't even get up it with a TR? Seriously.
You can call me whatever, it's a just cause. Pete you are so lost.
Only one of the perps lost the mojo and apologized as far as I know. They shouldn't apologize.
I am Spartacus!!!!!!1111111111
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