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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:15am PT
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Nowadays the GOP and the conservatives are a conglomeration of religious fanatics, backward flat-earth fanatics, angry white racists, misogynists, rapists, selfish bastards, & a few angry old white men on ST.
There! I amended it for Eddie T.
It's true ain't it.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:18am PT
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The whole idea of needing "teams" is the problem. But sheep like pens... all over the world. They can dye their wool blue or red. Makes it simple.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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It's true ain't it.
Boy howdy!
Thanks Fritzie.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:05am PT
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I re-read/skimmed about half the posts, which was actually instructive.
Boy, this thread sure foreshadowed 2016!
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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Antichrist, if you read bluering’s first several posts, you won’t find any difference between what he wrote in 2008 and what Steve Bannon says now. It’s all there.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:33am PT
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Liberals are morons the same as right wing left wing and all the rest of these st00pid designations.
It takes intelligence to see thru this modern day garbage ......
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Trump
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:43am PT
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
This modern tribal garbage might have some roots in ancient tribal garbage, and it might have been influenced by 4 billion years of intelligent reactions to a survival of the fittest environment.
Me, I hate being right all the time, but someone’s gotta do it, and it won’t surprise me if y’all feel the same way about your self and your tribe.
But if we can do better, well then let’s do better. It doesn’t seem like that’s the direction we’re moving in.
Best people.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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The 2016 election really knocked me down- for a while, I just had to disconnect from everything and try to understand what had happened in my family, community and America that could support Trump and all that was plainly clear to be true about him. There was a sh#t-ton of anger and resentment, but simply rolling around in that wasn't the life I wanted.
Gradually, I started re-engaging, and this time, hard as might be, tried to listen to other viewpoints that weren't in my 'worldview'. The only qualifier was that those viewpoints were reasonably rational and intelligent...which is obviously hard to come by these days.
I think I've gained some balanced perspective on what has happened in modern politics, and while the concept of Trump in the WH still reeks to me like sh#t on my shoe, I have a little better understanding of how we got here, and the things that really matter in American politics (like the judiciary).
Edit:
I really hope this particular polititard thread doesn't get locked down. It's an interesting topic and thread, and has some (ahem) 'historical' ST polititard perspective to it.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 21, 2018 - 10:49am PT
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with the rat on this one
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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Gradually, I started re-engaging, and this time, hard as might be, tried to listen to other viewpoints that weren't in my 'worldview'. The only qualifier was that those viewpoints were reasonably rational and intelligent...which is obviously hard to come by these days.
I think I've gained some balanced perspective on what has happened in modern politics, and while the concept of Trump in the WH still reeks to me like sh#t on my shoe, I have a little better understanding of how we got here, and the things that really matter in American politics (like the judiciary).
Apogee, thanks for your post. Looks like there just might be another liberal here worth engaging. (Jim Brennan is the only other.)
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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Reagan was a dimwitted, demetia riddled crook, who layed the groundwork for the modern GOP. This nostalia laden revisionist history is amusing, but if you think people that remember those days are going to respect you because you were a "Reagan man", you're crazy.
1980
1984
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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It's all relative, Somebody. The Reagan and Bush II presidencies might have had similar levels of scandal in their administrations, but they at least tried to put on a facade of being an articulate, rational leader. Trump abandons all such things...he's a shitshow both with his administration, and as the face of the Country. It's a couple of steps down, in my book.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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President Clinton's 'pussy grabbing' came to light after he'd been voted into office.
Trump was voted in with full public knowledge that he found 'pussy grabbing' acceptable.
Big difference.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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Which is an even more compelling question at this point in American political history. The events that have led us here are instructive and worth discussing, though.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:49am PT
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President Clinton's 'pussy grabbing' came to light after he'd been voted into office.
And it didn't really hurt hurt him with his base.
For all you Reagan haters, most recent polls of historians place him in the top 25 percent of Presidents.
He was hugely popular. In the 1984 election, Reagan received 44% more votes than Mondale.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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Yes you're right it is a big difference. I thought the Lewinsky scandal blew up during his first term and should have fact checked it, prior to making my post.
My mistake.
I voted for Bill twice.
Everyone knew he was hound back in 1992.
But, I’m glad we are taking a second look at his conduct. It’s a healthy thing.
For me, at the time, there was so many bullsh#t, ludicrous claims that it was difficult and tiring devoting bandwidth figuring out which ones were true. Vince Foster, anyone? (Lesson to the left about trump : don’t lie, don’t exaggerate, there are plenty of legitimate misdeeds to focus on. Don’t cry “Wolf!”) I tuned out a lot of it. I think/hope we have all evolved a bit about how we view the sexual power dynamics at play in the lewinsky scandal. With a bit of distance in time, it’s easier to see.
Now back to the confessed pussy grabber...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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Yes, there was some nebulous discussion of Flowers prior to the 1992 election, but there is always some level of torpedeoing going on during campaigns...and there was no voice recording, and direct witnessing of it like there was with the Access Hollywood tape.
I'm not downplaying Clinton's sliminess, but for the purposes of election politics, and public knowledge prior to elections, the circumstances between the two are markedly different.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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When I see old President Clinton on the telly these days? Man, he's a creep and a d#@&%ebag and still a pussy grabbing lying sonofabitch.
Many democrats are coming around to that viewpoint. I am.
Notice the difference on the campaign trail? In 2008 (after hillary lost), Bill was a hot commodity, when Obama used him for stump speeches at every opportunity. 2018 he was nowhere. Part of that was likely due to Clinton fatigue after 2016, but a lot of it was due to me too exploding in 2017. In all likelihood, it will be difficult if not impossible for democrats to fully reckon with that part his conduct.
Edit: outwardly at least, Clinton has tons more charm and charisma than trump. No doubt, that saved his bacon more than once.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 21, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
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Within a given group of voters for any particular candidate, there is a certain percentage who are so enamored of the candidate, they will overlook almost anything, no matter what the circumstance is. Their 'charms' work on this group, whether it was Clinton or Trump. I think this is a very vocal minority.
There's a lot of the electorate who are Party voters (a majority, methinks), who may be aware of the candidate's weaknesses or history, but because there really isn't any other choice except to vote outside their Party, check the box and hold their nose doing it. Given HRC's negatives, there really wasn't any likelihood of a Republican who knows Trump is a d#@&%ebag crossing over to the other side.
Voters from the opposing Party tend to lump all of those voters together, as though they are all rabid fans of the candidate, and are hypocrites for looking past them. That's a very shallow way to view those with differing views, and is the primary source for the vitriole that exists in political discussions.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 21, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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