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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I was never good enough to ride the Tour de France. Should the Tour de France build me an escalator so I can go up the climbs as fast as Lance Armstrong?
If I am not good enough to do climbs like Southern Belle and Autobahn, should somebody rap bolt a route on the South Face of Half Dome just so I can climb on it?
Bruce
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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bruce, a 1200cc bike should get you up those hills faster than lance.
again, i dont have an issue personally with the route. i have an issue with someone claiming they lowered their experience just for me. maybe i lived a bad childhood and dont believe anyone would be that nice for me, i dunno...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Bruce wrote: was never good enough to ride the Tour de France. Should the Tour de France build me an escalator so I can go up the climbs as fast as Lance Armstrong?
If I am not good enough to do climbs like Southern Belle and Autobahn, should somebody rap bolt a route on the South Face of Half Dome just so I can climb on it?
Bruce
Bruce...they used different bikes, style and equipment in the Tour than in the 50's...should Lance have ridden the Tour on a old 40 lbs steel bike, drinking wine and smoking cigs...just because they did it like that in the 50's.
He still did the race and Sean and Doug still climbed the route...they used different tactics than before.
It obvious that Sean is good enough...he didn't do it in the style you prefer and that really is the crux of the matter for a lot of folks here.
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Chewbongka
climber
लघिमा
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go Bob go!
456... Whoo Hooo!
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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How many self-appointed climbing style judges have posted on here so far?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Bob,
it is not obvious to me that Sean was good enough. If Sean was good enough then why didn't he do the route in the style of the routes on the same piece of rock. Shipley, Schultz, etc. were good enough to run it out and drill. That's not what Sean did.
Bruce
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WBraun
climber
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Mixing ethics and style into one big melding point as being done so far by various individuals here to make a conclusive argument will no doubt cause bewilderment and misunderstanding.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
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Bob sez: Bruce...they used different bikes, style and equipment in the Tour than in the 50's...should Lance have ridden the Tour on a old 40 lbs steel bike, drinking wine and smoking cigs...just because they did it like that in the 50's.
Your analogy is silly.
Whether you do the TDF on a 40 lb steel bike, a carbon fiber rocket or a unicycle, you have not permanently altered the experience for anyone else.
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minexploration
Social climber
Whitefish Montana
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Are we going to hit 600 posts? That would be amazing, but I am starting to see little improvement in the discussion.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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some people on this thread think it morally wrong to place a rap-placed bolt on a wall but not a ground up one.
In a Warren Hardingesque slow pitched drawl:
That's like, perhaps, having sex with a call girl when she's on top is very proper; but having sex with a call girl where you are on top is gross, immoral, or whatever.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Substitute DR as a partner for somebody with at least equal climbing talent to that of Sean's and maybe there would have been a different outcome. Even DR states they would have been more proud of the line had it been finished on the lead. No offense Doug, but it wasn't exactly the dream team for a route that demanded such a high skill level. Then if the route did go but was too run out for the user friendly masses, you could have added bolts on rappel. That, in my opinion, would have been doing a so called "greater good" for the climbing community. Further, this thread would have never existed.
BTW, who did climb the route?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Bruce wrote: Bob,
it is not obvious to me that Sean was good enough. If Sean was good enough then why didn't he do the route in the style of the routes on the same piece of rock. Shipley, Schultz, etc. were good enough to run it out and drill. That's not what Sean did.
Bruce
Because he choose not too...plain & simple. You don't like the style they did it in...so what.
Mike S...They did not alter anything for about 99.5 per-cent of the climbing community. I'm willing to bet than less than 0.5 percent of the climbing population actually climb the route.
Mike wrote: altered the experience for anyone else.
Bruce, Clint, you and others have no problem altering the experience for someone else...as long as it done ground up
Again...just admit that you don't like the style.
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adventurewagen
Trad climber
Seattle
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Can we get a topo of said route? I'd like to scrutinize it from bolt to bolt now ;)
Seriously, a topo would be nice to actually see what we are talking about considering nobody has been up the dang thing.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
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Nice edit Bob.
Had you for a minute there...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Leave it to the fat angry republican who has not a chance in hell of ever being good enough to climb the damn thing to be the most vocal for a chop job.......
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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What's worse a fat angry republican or a fat angry lesbian?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Fatty, I'm curious. If you rap and remove the upper half of the route, what do
you plan to accomplish? Are you making a point to the world that rap bolting is
bad? If so, why single out this particular route. After all, it's only half bad.
There's plenty of others that were put up wholly on rappel, why not chop those?
Or, is it that Half Dome is sacred ground and rap bolting should not be allowed
on this formation? If so, I hope you don't plan on using the cable route
to get down. Then you'd be letting one rap route flourish, even use it
to your own ends, but ban another.
BTW, you cannot "erase" a route once it has been established. You can destroy it,
but the route will still exist.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Did someone rap bolt Half Dome???
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Fatty...like most neo-cons and republicans talk a good game. It when it get to game time that their knees get weak and falter. :)
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