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jstan
climber
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Jan 25, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
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A pointless reminiscence. Getting old I guess.
The Eastern Trade and all took many hundreds of times the effort that I put into the climbing itself.
My priorities must have been all screwed up.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jan 25, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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I think priorities have little to do with it, John. You, like Lisa, will always find a couple hours of work to fit into 15 minutes of spare time.
Curt
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Can't wait for spring to come..... and get back climbing again.(bump)
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seth kovar
climber
Bay Area
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some - like Bill Goldner and much later Don Whillans - tried to extend the Ultra-All -Inclusive aspect to cadging FREE drinks. At the recent dinner at the Mountain Brauhaus, Joe Kelsey at our table was having a little problem with the check, because of some mix up about that Mark Robinson had payed for him but from another table - joe earnestly stated that "hey, I'll just pay for it again - I don't want to be a Bill Goldner" - it all worked out fine BUT note the Goldner reference - Goldner's fame survives - he has a bill paying avoidance mechanism named after him with people still using this appellation to describe such behavior to this day.
Now Whillans is a whole other order of magnitude - he liked to be a bar fighter- he would face people down and gruffly insist they buy him beers - BUT Dave Craft - master of corrective coercion- stood Whillans down - [so did Gerd Thuestad, while naked, about some wool socks - but you will have to ask Burt about that story]-
anyway Whillans had to buy his share of beer - at least when craft was around.
bump for Dave, love that guy...
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handsomegran
Trad climber
Stone Ridge, NY
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Dear all who are interested in Art Gran. My name is Josh Gran. I am Art's son. I have been reading some of the information that is posted above, and I must say that there is much to clarify. I grew up on my father's climbing stories. I know all of them like the back of my hand.
First off, somebody mentioned that my father was a bit of an "also ran," when compared to McCarthy and Williams. But if you look at the list of first ascents, Art Gran and Jim McCarthy are undoubtedly on the same level. Add to that my father's amazing contributions out west, especially in the Canadian Rockies, and I think the term "also ran" becomes not merely hyperbolic, but grossly incorrect, dare I even say slanderous. As far as Williams is concerned, he was the next generation, and indeed passed my father and McCarthy in Gunks climbing. My father had nothing but respect for Williams' abilities, as well as McCarthy's, on the cliffs, and I KNOW he would be the first to say that both of them were incredible. As far as Yvon Choinard is concerned, he and my father were friends. Choinard's reactions to a prank are no reason to make gross generalizations about the man.
Furthermore, Art Gran never became a guru of a hippie commune. He is far too much of a loner for that. Why did he stop hanging out with the climbing community? If you have to ask that question, you do not know my father very well. He prefers the solace of a peaceful evening with his dog Fergus. What ultimately became of him? He created a successful construction company --Gran Custom Builders, raised an amazing family, and because of his "somewhat abrasive" personality, I am proud to truly know what it means to be dedicated to pursuing what matters most in life. I think people who base their opinions of others on secondhand accounts ought to seek out instead the person in question; go to the source. Art will talk about climbing until the seventh seal is opened.
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MH2
climber
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Thanks for your perspective, Josh.
The Art Gran Gunk's guide seemed perfect for the time. It added a lot of value to the climbs, giving them a personality, perhaps. Those were great days in the late 60s and the Gran guide was vital to them, at least for me.
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Seth
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 16, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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Hey, I never post here at supertopo, but I climb in the Gunks and this is my favorite thread ever-- so many legends in one place. I also love looking at Gunks climbing photos so I hope if I bump the thread maybe we'll get some more!
Here are a few of mine:
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lucander
Trad climber
New England
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Jun 16, 2010 - 07:33am PT
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Art Gran was present at a panel discussion about Gunks climbing in the 1960s and 1970s held at Rock and Snow in 2008. Jim McCarthy introduced Art as the oldest living person who has climbed at the Shawangunks. It seemed to me that his peers hold him in high regard as a climber and I am surprised that his groundbreaking use of aerial photography in a guidebook is not widely recognized.
D. Lucander
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Jun 16, 2010 - 08:06am PT
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Josh
I'm glad to say I climbed with your father for a week, back in 1967. He cooked the supper and I did the dishes. For some reason I still remember how much he spiced up the eggs with some hot stuff.
I often wondered what happened to him.
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Seth
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 16, 2010 - 08:17am PT
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Art Gran put up a ton of climbs, many of which are among the most popular Gunks routes today: Strictly From Nowhere, Thin Slabs Direct... if his son is still reading I think he can stop worrying about his father's place in history. It is secure.
A few more pics:
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Seth
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 16, 2010 - 10:34am PT
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Pointing at the roofs atop Modern Times, of course.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:02am PT
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Art's guide was unusual not only for the photography. The book was an interesting read.
With regards to the possibility of being an also-ran. I have climbed with any number of people each of whom made tremendous long term contributions. All were out there for the joy you get from simply running.
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:14am PT
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Neat stuff. Anyone have details about DanO soloing Yellow Wall? I remember vaguely after he'd come back from the east telling us about it but his tales of the Gun Club at NRG held us in a deeper rapture...
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seth kovar
climber
Bay Area
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Jun 18, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
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Les
Trad climber
Bahston
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Jun 18, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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Late to this thread, but what an amazing one it is! SO many amazing memories from my many days there. Can't wait to get there again soon. Thanks for all the amazing contributions to this thread!
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sween345
climber
back east
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Jun 18, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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Steve,
There's a couple of older pictures in the entry foyer to the Brauhaus which it says it was their 50th anniversary in 2005.
There is also a picture (likely from the 2008 reunion) there with head shots of about 100 of the attendees, all squeezed into the frame.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 19, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
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Josh, I remember your dad with affection and admiration. Great sense of humor. Please say hello for me.
John
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handsomegran
Trad climber
Stone Ridge, NY
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For some reason, I keep thinking about the hilarious concept of my father being the supposed leader of a hippie commune in the late 60s and early 70s! He definitely took a far different route in life. He ended up marrying Linda, my mother, who already had a son, my brother Liam. He built us a beautiful house over near Stone Ridge, which served as a great place to grow up, as well as a large museum for my mother's paintings. My father is a guru, but his lessons were and are always taught by example.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The first time I met Art Gran was in the Gunks in, I think, 1960. I had come up with another kid (Bud Lustenberger---what a name for a climbing enthusiast) who told me that there was climbing in the East; at that point I done a few climbs in the Tetons and thought that was the only place in America to climb.
The Gunks looked 1000 feet tall as we made our way along the base looking for someplace to climb up. It was a hot humid summer weekday and there appeared to be no one else there. Eventually we made our way to Three Pines (of course we had no idea what it was called), climbed it, and somehow found our way back to the Uberfall. There we encountered Art, who stunned us with a display of bouldering beyond our wildest imaginations at the time.
Then he offered to take us up a climb---Squiggles, as it turned out. Again, we were stunned by his smoothness and technique. This was a peek into a world of competence we had barely imagined.
A year later, I saw Art in the climber's campground at Jenny Lake. He was surrounded by Vulgarians who, to my high-school senior's eyes, were behaving scandalously. (I wrote about that encounter in this upthread post.) When I greeted him, his only reaction was, "who are you?"
Well, I had no idea who I was at that point. But a day later, I happened to have on the same clothes I had been climbing in at the Gunks a year earlier, and I approached Art one more time and stupidly asked, "do you know who I am now?" To which he replied, "You put on some knickers and you're walking around." Having now been thoroughly squashed, I crept off to my tent, embarrassed that I had even imagined that a pair of knickers would have made me recognizable to a man of his stature and accomplishment.
I returned to the Gunks for good a few years later. My experience with Art notwithstanding, the Vulgarians were an inclusive group and welcomed me into the fold. By the mid-sixties, the original hard-drinking culture had been replaced by sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll, and Art was already really not part of that scene. Many of the original CCNY group were around but had already started to retreat from climbing.
There was never anything remotely like a hippie commune, with or without Art. For a while, Dave Craft, Claude Suhl, Elaine Mathews, myself and my wife at the time, Evy, shared a house in Tilson. The 1968 album by The Band, Music from Big Pink, was out and we called our house Big White. Evy and I had the third floor attic bedroom which we used on weekends. Claude and Elaine lived on the second floor and Dave on the first. The first two floors had their own kitchens. That's as close to a commune as things ever got, and Art had nothing to do with it.
Josh, my regards to your dad. I think I may have finally hung around long enough for him to remember me.
Richard Goldstone
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