Explain Bitcoin Please

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EdwardT

Trad climber

Retired

Apr 3, 2019 - 12:34pm PT

Banks - you seem to have a major attachment to Bitcoin.

Have you made any money investing in Bitcoin?

More than a few thousand dollars?

Banks

Trad climber

Santa Monica, CA

Apr 3, 2019 - 12:50pm PT

EdT-I've been in Bitcoin since early 2013, so I'll let you do the math. Just like we laugh at all the inaccuracies when a mainstream article about climbing comes out, I laugh at all the nonsense that some posters write because they read an article or two about Bitcoin and think they have it all figured out. I respond to provide information to those people on the forum who may be interested in learning more about Bitcoin.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 3, 2019 - 12:57pm PT

LocalBitcoins does over $1 Million USD in Bitcoin transactions per week in Venezuela. This is done to escape hyperinflation and potential confiscation.

Betty Wambugu, a Kenyan woman, made enough money investing in Bitcoin to buy a hotel and restaurant in rural Kenya. She calls it Betty's Place. She regularly holds Bitcoin meetups and accepts Bitcoin for payment.

These are two real world examples of where Bitcoin is working to improve the lives of the underbanked and oppressed.

Man, this sounds like an ad....:)))
There're a few people all over the world (but not the "regular" folks in 3rd world countries, especially not the "un-banked" which you brought up) who'd made money off bitcoin either investing early and exiting on time or scalping off its volatility. This was not a subject of the discussion (at least not the points in my postings). I'm not from the US originally, FYI, and while some shrewd folks back where I'm from made some on BTC I assure it doesn't apply to any "regular" people and will NOT be in any foreseeable future.
Venezuela trading you mentioned is probably the corrupt doing away with stolen oil money + scalping (by the same types of people). I wonder why Venezuelans even complain at all with all the btc riches flowing... (and they could have traded fiat on forex instead)

As for manipulation, what do you think the Fed does by changing interest rates and printing money out of thin air? That's manipulation. All markets are manipulated to one degree or another. The gov't pumps up the stock market thru its policies and thats ok. Bitcoin pumps and its that evil manipulation! Got it.

Oh I'm highly against government manipulation of the stock market as I mentioned in other threads. Two wrongs don't make it right. You're making too many assumptions.

CBOE is pulling Bitcoin futures because the CME has been kicking its ass in the futures market.
...
If you think that one needs to expose ones IP to transact in Bitcoin, then you really need to do more research.

Will see how long the scalping party lasts.
As to IP -- I think you need to do more research. Good luck with darknet, shady exchanges, vpns (I believe soon won't be possible to use them with any trustworthy exchanges or brokers) and all (especially with cashing out the 1s and 0s eventually)...if the law man needs to find you: they will, and transparency will only increase over time. Or, the criminals will, before the law...of course one can just keep it all in the hard ledger and take it to the grave.

To reiterate, my points were/remain that bitcoin is: a) not anonymous (and will not be) b) fun for scalping c) will be highly regulated and tracked by all governments and has its place and (limited) usefulness under such conditions

Banks

Trad climber

Santa Monica, CA

Apr 3, 2019 - 03:51pm PT

Former- I personally know people in Venezuela using Local Bitcoins and AirTM and they are most definitely not using it to launder oil money, they are using it to survive.

I agree with you that Bitcoin is not totally anonymous, being tracked to a certain degree and will be regulated to an extent. And most people are fine with that. But I also have the ability to chose the level of anonymity that I want, and that has value to me and many others. And yes, that includes not exposing an IP address if I don't want to. You know you can send Bitcoin over radio frequencies, right?

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 3, 2019 - 04:01pm PT

Yes... HAM radio (but one can intercept and decrypt), or can just strike a deal with someone in person or over the phone (well, they can cheat, no guarantees). Then you have to pay cartel to hunt them down. All these are STHF situations.
And in Venezuela it's SHTF...not everyday event of our lives. So all means are good - dollar cash, physical gold, bitcoin, forex (if one can get on it), barter....canned food too. And bullets (sometimes). One reason bitcoin's better than physical cash or gold (in this kind of situation) is it's harder to get killed for it...but on the other hand, if cartel asks you for the password, if the word is out you got stuff...you'll give it out. Better than being tortured with hot iron. (I know all about life in this kind of enviornment). The key is to be there where you don't need to resort to the lifeboat but never know if you might need to.

By the way, regarding coinbase - I couldn't even pass their verification because of some technical glitch and heard a lot of the same, including already verified people getting locked out or their withdrawals frozen and having trouble to be re-verified. And this selfie/with id verification is worse privacy intrusion than in-person banking because they'll put your face into some database with unknown future use (like facial recognition) and unknown people having access to your ID info on a system with likely not superb security/not comparable to US bank security.

Banks

Trad climber

Santa Monica, CA

Apr 3, 2019 - 05:19pm PT

Take a look at what GoTenna is doing, especially the TxTenna app for Bitcoin transmissions. I'd like to see someone intercept and decrypt a transmission.

As far as SHTF scenarios, you keep several wallets and give the bad guys the smallest balance. But that is a far fetched scenario.

Coinbase is crap. Like most US exchanges, I don't think they'll run off with anyone's money, but I don't trust them with anyone's information. Especially after Coinbase decided to hire former Hacking Team members.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 3, 2019 - 05:57pm PT

Take a look at what GoTenna is doing, especially the TxTenna app for Bitcoin transmissions. I'd like to see someone intercept and decrypt a transmission.

Go/TxTenna is some good stuff. By intercept/decrypt I meant I guess far very fetched sceanario involving insiders from the company itself.

As far as SHTF scenarios, you keep several wallets and give the bad guys the smallest balance. But that is a far fetched scenario.

That wasn't far fetched when I was younger, I mean in STHF type of life...saw it happening a lot and is still a concern in some places. If they know how much money you got (say you sold real estate) they won't stop until they get it all. Realtor, bank, government registrar would be the one to rat you out. Business partner situation, etc. But yes in this kind of extreme situation one might lose their life anyway, even after giving out money access.

Coinbase is crap. Like most US exchanges, I don't think they'll run off with anyone's money, but I don't trust them with anyone's information. Especially after Coinbase decided to hire former Hacking Team members.

Yes, exactly...Hacking Team becoming insiders, and also they're crappy overall including the mess with verifications/lockouts. The US ones are least likely to run off with money - but if they "fall to hacking" (which might be organized with their own help) - then never know, probably no liability/no assets anyway, especially if happens during recession, in murky water.