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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You know, its Rich People that f*#ked over Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt, right?
Marx explained all this in great detail 150 years ago! This sh!t doesn’t happen overnight!
Aren’t you comrades ever going to believe it?
I’ve got a twenty that Kaepernick thinks Karl is Groucho’s uncle.
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Degaine
climber
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blahblah wrote:
clever shyster
F*#k you.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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kingtut
Sep 5, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
What kind of a person blames poor people for factories leaving for China and leaving Detroit with nothing?
You know, its Rich People that f*#ked over Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt, right? It ain't the poor people that moved the factory.
You know that, right?
You're one of these deep thinkers that blames poor people for the housing crisis in 2008 too I bet? All those poor people took advantage of those poor rich bastards at Goldman Sachs LOL?
You are the perfect tool for smarter and richer men that so easily play you.
Nice straw man. Props for consistency.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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It never cease to amaze me how some people can look at an issue in such as one sided way. They can convince themselves of the most illogical things to stay in their paradigm.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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It never cease to amaze me how some people can look at an issue in such as one sided way. They can convince themselves of the most illogical things to stay in their paradigm.
Standard fare for these political threads.
Myopia abounds.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Some solid points and lots of BS.
The great majority of cops are not racist. The biggest problem IMO is that the blue wall does cover up and protect their own sometimes, that's to be expected when you put your lives on the line for each other, but they need to know when to draw the line.
Blaming things on welfare is ridiculous. By far the biggest federal spending is on medicaid, how does providing health care to poor people hurt them? Then it's food stamps. Then earned income tax credit.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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And yes, we can thank the Dem policies for this regressive nature.
you can also thank the current Republican Senate, House, and President for voting to continue to fund "welfare", but that would point out your own hypocrisy so you did not
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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And yes, we can thank the Dem policies for this regressive nature.
you can also thank the current Republican Senate, House, and President for voting to continue to fund "welfare", but that would point out your own hypocrisy so you did not
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Best thing to come out of Detroit is Ted Nugent.
Negative. The best thing to come out of Detroit is MC5.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jolly you have some points but you hypocrisy is deep. The issues are multifaceted and the best solutions will come from addressing many sides.
The point was assistance that says you can’t do this on your own. That concept is the issue.
That’s conservative propodanda. Assistance doesn’t say that. Does it say that to white people?
My point is rather than creating a society where we take responsibility, we find someway to blame something. That does not create progress. It’s regressive. Look in your own life. The times you blamed sh#t for not getting what you wanted. Did you get closer to what you wanted? Likely not. You only get there when you stop blaming, take responsibility, and choose to do better.
That’s a valid point. But there also is a system in place with problems in it. Of course everyone wants to blame the other side because that’s easier.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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It's statements like that that can make people think you are racist. It has nothing to do with "agreeing we owe all blacks everything". It's assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole.
You READ my statement as "assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole," but if you charitably read what I've posted on this thread, you'd see that it couldn't possibly be an accurate read.
For example, I've TWICE posted the Chris Rock clip in which he uses pretty good humor to argue that it's NOT about race; it's about culture. So, already, with that alone, you should detect that my perspective is far more granular than some idiotic "assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole." Give me a break!
I've also repeatedly stated that it is a small subset of blacks that have chosen a thug lifestyle and that it is THOSE blacks who are inordinately violent, thus skewing the stats for the whole race.
I pointed out that Rock's audience is composed of blacks that will almost certainly never have a police encounter in which they end up shot.
This has nothing to do with RACE, and it is race-baiters (like Kap) that are turning it into such a cluster-fornication.
The issue we're discussing on this thread concerns a subset of a subculture. And that subset DOES have an inordinate number of police encounters, sometimes ending badly for the perp, primarily because, like the San Bernardino shooters, they embrace a thug, gangland lifestyle. And, yes, blacks that embrace that culture are pretty much doomed to a short and dismal life.
Not to mention that they skew that stats.
But you can't sustain the claim that poverty DETERMINES these outcomes. You can't sustain the claim that character and choice play no significant role. You can't sustain the claim that government has not screwed the pooch with its "social programs."
Yes, we can talk about what might be done about the plight of impoverished blacks in inner cities. But that conversation has nowhere to go as long as any disagreement produces the instantaneous default position: "You're a racist."
And when that attack is deployed so instantly and trivially, it quickly gets deflated in value and force.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Dude, you're of course not a racist, you are simply a small, petty, little, man. . .kind of like Trump. . .
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TradMike
Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Ross Perot was correct to say NAFTA was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the US to cheap labor markets. We have lost well over 35 million jobs because of NAFTA. Those could have been jobs for a lot of the less educated or not as book smart (both white and black). Both sides of the isle supported NAFTA. Both of Perot's opponents (George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton) argued that NAFTA would create jobs in the U.S. because of business expansion and they were both wrong or telling a lie. Just recently, Obama wanted to join the TPP and only he knew why but Hillary and Trump were both against. Maybe this was the only way he could get Obamacare pushed through (a gift to big corporations for allowing Obamacare). So there you have it, both parties do not have our best interests in their agendas and they all sell out. I am not a person to pick parties but I do like seeing the trade deals being re-negotiated. Maybe we can bring a few of the 35 million lost jobs back to give those unemployed or lower class the decency of work and good pay. Can you imagine how much worse poverty areas would have gotten if the TPP would have passed. I have to give Trump credit, he is the first person in a long time trying to bring jobs back for the lower class blacks and whites. What is he getting for this, I can't think of anything except he simply may have a good heart. We need leaders who will try to find ways to get jobs to the poor and maybe with some social leaders combined, they will find a way to prosper. We should focus on our own country and show the world how to prosper instead of giving it away at the detriment of our less fortunate. It is not Nationalism like some say, it is trying to be a good role model so others can follow suit. The less able to adapt will always be hurt the most. We need true leaders who care about everyone, not themselves. If there are only 10 jobs available and 20 people, guess who will get the jobs. The most eager, hard working and skilled will get the jobs and unfortunately, the other 10 will need to fight it out. Maybe this is where the crime comes in.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Ross Perot was correct to say NAFTA was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the US to cheap labor markets. We have lost well over 35 million jobs because of NAFTA. Those could have been jobs for a lot of the less educated or not as book smart (both white and black). Both sides of the isle supported NAFTA. Both of Perot's opponents (George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton) argued that NAFTA would create jobs in the U.S. because of business expansion and they were both wrong or telling a lie. Just recently, Obama wanted to join the TPP and only he knew why but Hillary and Trump were both against.
Even without NAFTA, most of those low-skilled assembly type jobs would have disappeared anyway. Perhaps a little slower.
When a given factory making widgets relocates to northern Mexico, the losses are apparent. When farmers have bigger markets for their exports, the benefit of free trade is harder to see.
Although Trump is working very hard to educate Americans about the benefits of open markets, especially for farmers.
NAFTA created winners and losers, but overall it has benefited more Americans than it has harmed.
NAFTA has made the North American car industry more efficient and competitive.
With a protectionist model where nobody could import cars or car parts into the US, consumers would pay thousands of dollars more, for crappier cars, and US car companies would not be able to compete internationally.
Trump and Hillary campaigned against TPP because a lot of naive voters were against TPP. Just because some swing voters are against something, doesn't mean it is a bad idea.
Trump seems to be a true believer when it comes to protectionism and thinking that trade has to be a zero-sum game.
When Hillary said she was against TPP, I didn't actually believe her.
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TradMike
Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
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I don't understand how someone can say we are better off with imbalanced trade when we are losing $500 billion per year due to the trade imbalance. Any household can tell you that it won't survive if you have more money going out than coming in. It simply does not work. At worst case it needs to be even. Best case, you are taking advantage of someone else. It should be a barter system or nothing. Otherwise, you are destroying somebodies way of life. I guess you don't care about the people that lost there jobs in the US due to manufacturers leaving for slave labor in other counties. I guess you condone sweat shops as long as you get cheap goods as your neighbor loses his job. You are basically saying you are okay with slave labor and beating the common man down.
We know where you stand August West. 35 million lost jobs is a real number and not made up. I have not seen any benefit and you offer no explanation. $500 billion is net loss after you look at gains and losses so your math does not add up.
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TradMike
Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Some areas of the world should not be develop if they don't have the basic necessities. When trade comes along using 90% of all the petroleum usage per day to prop up an area of the world that can't sustain itself you have created a huge imbalance and not very sustainable. It is destined to fail into an apocalypse. I'd rather have a small war but I doubt that would happen. We could lend a hand but not at the expense of cutting off half our population and let them figure out how to survive. There are better ways to prevent wars.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Power Crux
Sep 6, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
a trade deficit is not losing money
go to the grocery store with $20
come home with zero and a bag of groceries
you didn't lose money....you used it to get something you wanted
fair enough that not everyone gets this
pathetic that our businessman president doesn't
Where'd you get the $20?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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pathetic that our businessman president doesn't
And you get yer economic advice from a comedian? HaHaHaHa!
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jolly Roger:
.. policies put in place by dems that literally tell minorities, especially blacks, that they can’t make it without gov’t help. Affirmative action was racist, is racist. It says you are not equal, we will help. That does not create the pride necessary to better oneself. We have 40 years of theses policies, and there has been no improvement. The gov’t can’t improve your life. You have to improve it.
The messages would be better if people actually took the lead and talked about the real issues, and said this rioting, burning, victim mentality is a crutch. Give them leadership to better themselves. Set an example. Kap is now just another victim. This mentality is a cancer, and not one that creates a better society. Jolly Roger, thank you for injecting a bit of common sense into this discussion.
Racism is real.
Currently racism is mainly in the minds of blacks.
Fixing this issue is not easy.
If we want to live in a more peaceful and more equal society we need to stop propaganda of racism by BLM, Dems, progressive MSM and start working on finding a way out of this hole.
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