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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 18, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
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Craig LOL..
must be getting restless cant wait to post up:
LIVE VIA TIC ROCK MEDUSA ANSWERS ALL QUESTIONS..
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 18, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
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If you had troubled to read Mein Kampf (arguably the most poorly written book ever published) and noted Hitler's breathtaking hatred of ANY kind of progressive views, I believe it's perfectly accurate to label Nazis as right wing fanatics. Are you attempting to say that the Nazis were liberals?
"If I had troubled to read..?" Well at least we can agree that it was poorly written. Saying that Nazi's were liberals would be about as smart as saying that today's American conservatives are like the Nazi's, which is how I read Ken's statement.
My point regarding Reagan was simply that the Democrat Party does not own the high ground with regard to Hispanics. The use of "Dissapeared" as a verb refers to the murder and concealment of the death of certain persons. Not something I think Reagan had in mind. Reagan agreed to grant amnesty to about 3 million illegals in the US at the time, and Congress agreed to get serious about the border so the same situation in bigger numbers would not happen again and again. Oh well.
Chastising any political group for obstructing Obama's efforts to help urban blacks is a real stretch. It simply has not been an agenda item for him. Oddly this is just the kind of situation which is perfectly suited to the legal use of Executive Directives. It is an emergency, and effective action can be taken by the President without it rising to the level of creating law. And of course his best chance to shine light on such issues is the State of The Union. But..... crickets.
So in the mean time Rahm Emmanuel, his ex Chief of Staff and long time political ally sits on the powder-keg called Chicago, and yet again shows us the politics of expediency at their best. If a cop shoots a black man make the absolute most of it regardless of what really happened; bring in the Sharpton's, National news and all. Unless, of course, it threatens your chance at re-election in which case pay off the surviving family with millions of public $ and cover the whole affair up as quickly as possible.
I'm not sure who you refer to by "me and my ilk," but if it's Escopeta I'll take that as a compliment :-)
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
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I like this thread.
Dirt Claud-
As I sit here in my parlor, playing chamber music on my harpsichord and sipping Tawny Port, I promise to you, to harden my resolve, to do everything in my power to lessen the plight of the darker races.
I'll send out a memo to my assistant, first thing tomorrow, right after my Polo match.
Memo: Trevor- please gather, for donation-all outdated aperral, unused canned food and that fruit cake mummy sent last week.
Dirt Claud- it appears as though, you are the gentleman that authenticates White Guilt credits. I'd like to exchange for some of those at your earliest convenience. My elitist friends will be so envious!
Regards,
Liberal White Elitist
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
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My point regarding Reagan was simply that the Democrat Party does not own the high ground with regard to Hispanics. wouldn't you admit that things have changed radically since Reagan's time.
You can't use him now since the Modern Right Wing contingent has taken the low ground instead.
It's what's happening now, not a hope that what happened 30 years is enough to make up for all the other millions of misdeeds against latinos
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
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What a heated debate! How interesting!
In Idaho, we may have heated debate, but the huge Conservative-Republican majority keeps voting Republican & the more right-wing whack-job the candidates are, the better!
There are still some Democrat members in the state legislature, but every statewide office is held by a Republican.
Human-nature being what it is, now the Ultra-Conservative Republicans are trying to oust the less Conservative Republicans. The last Idaho Republican Congressman who will work with Democrats to pass legislation that benefits America, Rep Simpson, is now the target of our newest rightwing whackjob, Conservative Congressman, Puerto-Rican native, LDS church member, ex-immigration-lawyer, Raoul Labador.
Raoul publicly attacked fellow-Mormon Rep. Simpson last summer for drinking alcohol, a no-no for all but the most secret-elite of Mormon-dumb.
So-----to bring my rant back to questions, or accusations thrown at Escopeta. It doesn't matter how we vote in Idaho, because the majority here always votes Republican.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
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Escopeta, are you the mormon chick who cried foul awhile back??
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
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pyro: Devastating response, as always. Say, is dirt claud your twin brother?
dirt claud: Malcolm X was black, and his views which were different from MLK, but were certainly understandable and arguably more realistic. As noted earlier, black people, by virtue of their racial heritage, cannot be White Trash.
Pyro, however, is a magnificent specimen of White Trash.
EDIT:
Forgot about Allen West. Yeah - he's what we call an Uncle Tom, and I'm sure the Tea Party is delighted to have a token black, especially one who dodged by the skin of his teeth a court-martial by the U.S. Army for the extra-judicial torture of an Iraqi.
Allen is also the guy who accused the Democratic Party of having 78 - 81 communist in its ranks.
Yeah... good old Al there is just plain folks.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 18, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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It's what's happening now, not a hope that what happened 30 years is enough to make up for all the other millions of misdeeds against latinos
It's not a hope. It's an observation. The relevant point being that no President or Congress has been able to come to terms with the problem since.
It's a tough conundrum. Hispanics work here for substandard wages plus social benefits. But they come here, often at great risk, for these jobs. Drive up their pay and another principle will come into play: Cheap labor stifles innovation. We're already seeing the tip of this iceberg in fast food and similar industries where higher minimum wages are driving companies to automate. There are going to be fewer jobs, especially those crucial first job opportunities for young people. Expensive labor drives innovation.
So the old adage "illegals do the jobs no one else will" is not true. When illegals settle into burger flipping jobs to support families they are displacing young people who would move through these "first jobs."
So which is really better for the Mexican people? Let them cross an open border into a land where they will find it harder and harder to get by unless we simply take care of them? Or regulate immigration to numbers we can bring into our society and employ? Today it is out of control, and whichever side you fall on this has to be a bad thing.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 18, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
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Yes. The current growth in the numbers of illegals in the US is neutral right now. We have about 11.5 million here now, and perhaps two hundred thousand have left, died, or whatever. So for the current state of our economy we have apparently reached the saturation point.
Wouldn't this be a good time to plan ahead so that when better economic times roll around we have realistic policies in place regarding immigration?
edit: And yes, 11.5 million undocumented people working to a great extent in an undocumented cash economy is out of control.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 18, 2016 - 09:47pm PT
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Yes. But I have friends and relatives who will vote for Clinton simply because of her gender, even if they know she is not the best candidate. Electing a highly qualified woman would be great for women and the country. But Clinton, with all of her baggage, not so much.
Clinton is the most highly qualified to run since Geo HW Bush. In all of the public jobs she has held, she is held in high regard by the professionals in the field.
But your bashing of her, pushing the Repug agenda, supports what I say.
But today we must ask ourselves if “they” will remember getting much help in the last seven years.
You can ask *yourself* all you want. When "they" are asked, they respond that they perceive that democrats have had their back, while Repugs step on their backs, to get a leg up.
An interesting position to take considering that surrendering oneself to the central authority is anathema to a Conservative.
You don't have an effing clue what entering the military is about, do you? Conservatives want YOU to submit to a national religion, they want YOU to submit to a national military-industrial complex, their response to any problem is NOT self-sufficiency, but LEADERSHIP----which is code for a central authority organizing a response. They want to control your bedroom, and who is in it. They want to control your food. Your water.
They are AGAINST diplomacy (cutting the budget), and FOR military action. They want to be the "world's policeman".
But they are good about lying about all this in doublespeak.
Saint Ronald, and the hispanics?
I've lived in the state my entire life. You just don't remember what a racist he was. The hispanics remember.
You obviously must not have been watching the last 6 months, or you'd know what murderers and rapists the mexicans are.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 18, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
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Clinton is the most highly qualified to run since Geo HW Bush.
In all of the public jobs she has held, she is held in high regard by the professionals in the field.
LOL
You are brainwashed fool.
And it's got nothing to do with Democrats, Republicans, politics or any of it.
You're just plain brainwashed fool period.
It should read "she is held in high regard by all the criminals in the field"
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 18, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
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"If I had troubled to read..?" Well at least we can agree that it was poorly written. Saying that Nazi's were liberals would be about as smart as saying that today's American conservatives are like the Nazi's, which is how I read Ken's statement.
You must not know many Jews.
It's the "strong leaders" that they fear. Those that aren't party to political correctness, and will call a spic a spic:
This fellow here over here with the yellow shirt, Macaca, or whatever his name is. He's with my opponent.... Let's give a welcome to Macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia.
— George Allen
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 18, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
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Wouldn't this be a good time to plan ahead so that when better economic times roll around we have realistic policies in place regarding immigration?
Oh, so NOW you want to support the President's position, where he has called on the Republican Congress, over and over, to come up with a comprehensive program.
Something that Rubio showed real leadership in pursuing, and is now trashed for trying to do.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jan 18, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
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Nice arguing KSolem!
Ken you otta take some notes..
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 18, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
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You must not know many Jews.
I'm growing tired of such assumptions...
"Perhaps if you had read..."
"You must not know many Jews..."
My Father sang as Cantor at Stephen Wise Synagogue in Manhattan for twenty years. I was brought in to blow the Shofar for the holidays. It was very exciting. A very intense community.
Conservatives want "you" to subscribe to a national religion??
Please...
Conservatives want "you" to submit to a national military-industrial complex?
Replace that with Government wants... and I'm in.
All of this BS about how different the parties are is wearing thin. Try closing an otherwise useless base in a Democrat district and you'll see what I mean.
And if you really give a hoot about the military industrial complex do a little homework on our current fleet of Ohio Class Ballistic Missile Submarines with their doomsday destructive power, and the current program to replace them which is moving, with stealth, through Congress and the Administration with nary a peep. 14 Submarines, each with 24 Trident IV missiles, each of which carries min. 8 independently targeted warheads each of which make Hiroshima look like a firecracker... min. 2688 such warheads.
You would think that if the Democrat party were valiant against the military industrial complex, any more so than the Reps., then their righteous opposition to this wasteful machine of Armageddon would be voiced loud and clear. Rest assured that every member of Congress and the Administration is aware of this sickening program but mum is the word.
Regarding Hillary, I cannot fathom supporting her. Even though I disagree with everything Sanders stands for I would vote for him over her in a minute. He wears his values on his collar and I can respect him for that. Clinton is a chameleon. Expedient, dishonest and hypocritical.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:06am PT
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You complain about this constantly, you just don't like it when I frame it outside of your "I'm a victim of government oppression" story. Instead of defending your views you insist that you don't have them. "The entire government budget is stolen from people like me and redistributed to others" means exactly what I said. Unless you are stating that you think those people DO deserve it. By all means explain that further if I am misunderstanding it.
Are those quotations intended to signify something I wrote? I don't remember writing that.
If they are supposedly attributed to me, that is the issue I was speaking of in terms of your disingenuous debate skills. I'm happy to defend my position. What I'm not interested in defending is your exaggerated paraphrase or apparent intentional mis-interpretation of my positions. They might be fine for you to wave around in an effort to discredit my position, but I feel no obligation to defend them.
The amount of money the government takes from me could barely support one of Sally Struther's african kids. The real re-distribution occurs through corporate taxes, the endless regulatory pyramid schemes, the fee and fine bonanza and so on.
But honestly, wealth redistribution is really only one of the many facets our current government - both Dem and Repub - have undertaken in the systematic reduction of individual freedom.
I was trying the other day, while looking at a blue sky cradling a shotgun, to think of one single thing the government has done in my lifetime to actually EXPAND or even give back a freedom. Couldn't come up with a solid example. One maybe. That's it. Sad indeed
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:12am PT
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Escopeta, are you the mormon chick who cried foul awhile back??
Good Grief. Go talk to Craig Fry. He saved from being the Mormon chick who cried afoul, apparently.
Since I'm saved I guess I'm Presbyterian now or something.
This is starting to feel like some kind of weird online version of 'To Tell The Truth' .
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:26am PT
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:29am PT
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Escopeta posted If they are supposedly attributed to me, that is the issue I was speaking of in terms of your disingenuous debate skills. I'm happy to defend my position. What I'm not interested in defending is your exaggerated paraphrase or apparent intentional mis-interpretation of my positions. They might be fine for you to wave around in an effort to discredit my position, but I feel no obligation to defend them.
But honestly, wealth redistribution is really only one of the many facets our current government - both Dem and Repub - have undertaken in the systematic reduction of individual freedom.
It's hardly disingenuous to point out that it requires a position of privilege to believe that the government only robs people of money and "individual freedom." The assumption there is that we would be "more free" with "less government." Can you point to a time when this was true?
Hermit- That would likely win her the election.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 19, 2016 - 05:40am PT
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I'd say that Trump is not an evil piece of sh#t. He's more like 3 or 4 whole evil shits. Here in Spain, we have a standoff with about 5 or 6 (lost count) parties trying to form a government (GOOD LUCK!). I wish I could report that the multi-party model works better, but I have to say that the jury is still out.
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