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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 10:28am PT
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"If I owned property with climbing on it, I'd never allow climbers onto it."
It would be OK if you knew who they were and what they were doing, and if they could keep an eye on it to protect it. In fact this is what is now happening at Skytop.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Feb 27, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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No Donald, it would not be ok. If the land manager says no, it means no.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 10:40am PT
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Does the state require a contractors license for chipping projects of that magnitude?
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 10:54am PT
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"No Donald, it would not be ok. If the land manager says no, it means no."
Who do you think the "you" is in that sentance? The land manager or the rockclimber?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 27, 2013 - 11:14am PT
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You guys are missing the obvious, which is to do the route in visible way, maybe get a camera crew in there, THEN you break off the holds to keep the noobs away.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Feb 27, 2013 - 11:37am PT
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WOW! What an inspired concept. Don't wait for the climber who is good enough to do the route properly, just make it as you like it now. Then publish yourself in a guide book on all your new "test pieces". This revelation has enlightened me. I am now gearing up for a trip to the Black Canyon this spring. I am going to rap the North Chasm Wall with a construction crew. We will create a new, fully cleaned, chipped, carved and bolted 5.8c/d route between the Cruise and the Scenic Cruise. It will be sooooo bitchin'. Who could possibly have a problem with that? And I will be so famous. Of course we will with also have to install the sled ramp down the Cruise Gully so getting to the base will be as quick and easy as the climb will be. If this goes as well as I am sure it will plans are already in the works to do the full extension of the Jardine Traverse. Wow this New World Disorder is the bomb.
All Hale Ian Green the profit of a new way. 'Cause the old way is history and everybody knows nobody cares about history.
Anyone know where I can get a pair of those sexy camo gloves and a bitchin' beanie like his? I wouldn't want to be "out of style".
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
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Dear Cosmo, you wrote: "After looking at that video again of Ivan, One thing comes to mind. He sure had to POUND long and HARD on that rock to get off the LOOSE rock!!"
I see he is banging with upward vertical blows. I think that has nothing to do with what was going to happen when you load the flake vertically downward. It was a flake not fully attached, you can see that at 2:58. Sometimes there are flakes under boulders that just fall off pretty easily. I have pulled off things like that in the talus and on cliffs, were there are often bugs living in them. Sometimes there is actually cockroaches living in them!, I have no idea how they got here, I thought they only lived in NYC.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
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He is also banging sidways with a fuking sledge and a gawdamn chisel.
Why do some people go to such lengths to defend what is obviously blatant chipping and hold manufacturing? Are they attempting to justify their own past transgressions? Give it up. Manufacturing holds with a fuking chisel and sledge is just wrong. Pretty f*#king simple.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
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"Why do some people go to such lengths to defend what is obviously blatant chipping and hold manufacturing?"
I am not talking about hold manufacturing you are, I am trying to understand what the video is about. It looks to me like he could have just pulled it off under body weight. What do you think? Are you a climber?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
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yeah, yeah, yeah, The guy is so obviously chisleing That it's painful to watch the vid. he should just admit that he's pro-choice and move along
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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I am trying to understand what the video is about.
Do you need a translator?
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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Donald,
Don't question the supertopo internets gods. They know everything about this issue from this video. Ivan is guilty as charged, no discussion necesary. There is no gray area.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
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donald perry = stupid American
It looks to me like he could have just pulled it off under body weight.
Then he would not have needed to smash and chisel forever as was evident in the video.
But since you have no good brain you will just keep on trucking with your nice illusion that you are projecting onto this culprit ....
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
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You must remove those nasty loose holds from that thing cause if it snaps off you could become trapped between that and your pads.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
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Well if it was only creative cleaning, then I think we could talk about it. But it's gone beyond that, as what is the case on Twilight Zone.
Why is there no plans to try and put things back the way they were? That would demonstrate something, wouldn’t it? But instead what we have is silence for 3O years. This is just the first time it’s on video. When it was in the guide book no one complained, they even called it JACKHAMMERING!
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
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Locker, it appears two be at least an 18" fall from the photo.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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I am not talking about hold manufacturing you are, I am trying to understand what the video is about. It looks to me like he could have just pulled it off under body weight. What do you think? Are you a climber?
It doesn't take several minutes with a sledge and fuking chisel to remove a flake that would come off under body weight. The end result is a sculpted grip. It is absolutely 100% hold manufacturing.
What do I think? I think you are quite daft actually.
I've helped developed hundreds of boulder problems in dozens of areas. Nobody on our crew has ever resorted to pounding on anything that hard with those kind of tools. It is despicable. As is trying desperately to obfuscate what is clearly hold manufacturing.
Why is there no plans to try and put things back the way they were?
That is one of the many reasons chipping is so grotesque. You cannot put it back the way it was without making it look even worse. The ONLY solution is to not chip in the first place.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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But instead what we have is silence for 3O years.
Donald if you're serious everyone will deal with you but I have the feeling you're not. Your argument seems to be that this kind of thing is normal at the Gunks and that Ivan Greene is being singled out unfairly for what everyone does. But there's lots of people on this forum who've climbed at the gunks for 30 years or more and know that's not true.
Patrick, I'd love to get you on a jury in one of my cases. They could show you a video of the guy committing the crime and you still wouldn't believe it. You'd need proof!
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
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WBraun "Then he would not have needed to smash and chisel forever as was evident in the video."
I am sorry we don't agree. I own a demolition company, beat on stuff all day long, and I am not convinced. I think there is no way for us to tell how much weight the flake would have held from a video. But I can tell you that after these things fall off, sometimes it is a real mystery to try and imagine what was holding them on in the first place.
If his intention was simply to remove the flake he could have hammered the chisel between the rock and the flake.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 27, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
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LOL ^^^^
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