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skykilo
Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 10, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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Thanks for the awesome thread and nice try, G. I got put in my place on both Pipeline and Wild Turkey at Squamish and you can call me "a big fan." Hope your shoulder heals real well.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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Aug 10, 2011 - 10:06am PT
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Mike is currently my favorite belayer.
Francois will be crushed, good thing he's not on ST.
The smear before the fall.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Aug 10, 2011 - 10:13am PT
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Greg, you're a beast! Send or not, I'm impressed.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2011 - 10:25am PT
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Fair enough, Jammer. I suppose the elephant in the room is the fact that I got as close as I did. I think it says a lot about Jaybro that he was pulling for me, even though success on my part might cloud the picture on the ratings.
Skykilo - Thanks. You're the first person I've heard of who's been on Wild Turkey. I wouldn't even know where to find it.
Thanks, Mooser!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 10, 2011 - 10:42am PT
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Eeyonkee, your success would in no way cloud the ratings. You are a beast! If anything your near success reinforces the fierceness of Lucille's reputation. When you are ready you will send.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 10, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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Dern, Greg, that looks like a long way from your protection!!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 10, 2011 - 03:07pm PT
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Nice Ron!
Jam, the rating was based on a comparison to the Owl roof and Paisano, the only games in town atTthe time.13a is the consensus of people who have led it (including Craig. though he thought differently at first, he did subsequently,tell Pamela and myself that he agreed with the .13a rating) A rating is just a number, get on it and see what you think for yourself (though it sounds like you've already decided ;) )until then it's all hypothetical.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 10, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
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Might be a good place to put together a list of the folks who've actually sucessfully climbed the route on lead. The ones that come to mind are:
Jay
Craig
Andy
Pamela
Steve
I suspect Justin knows of a few to add.
I recall that Leubben quote about "I've done 5.12s that were harder", but I can think of lots of routes that seem miles harder than others rated several letters harder...sustained pukers vs. boulder problem in the sky rigs.
Pasiano and Owl are both very short affairs and essentially boulder problems a pitch off the deck. They're both only about 7 (Owl) to 10 (Paisano) moves through the biz and more about beta and technical issues than staying power. I'd think it would feel waaaay harder to get up Lucille than either of those, from an effort standpoint.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2011 - 03:44pm PT
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Sort of wish that I'd never brought up the whole ratings thing (another reason to cut back on those beers). I'm more of a comedy guy.
Edit - I will say that I think Vedauwoo ratings are for the most part very stiff. I think Big Pink is definitely 5.12.
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Aug 10, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
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>when I compare something like Big Pink or Trip Master Monkey
Back then, Bob would rate his climbs as low as he could without breaking out in laughter when he told someone the rating.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Aug 10, 2011 - 04:45pm PT
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The issue of hand/food size, endurance vs. power, etc are hardly unique to wide cracks. In fact I would argue that a flared squeeze chimney is probably less size dependent than most other sizes of crack climbing. One just has to go deeper when you're smaller.
I've certainly found offwidths in Utah and Colorado to be easier for the grad than at Vedauwoo, where I learned to climb.
When Layne Kopischka was writing one of the early guidebooks to Vedauwoo, Rob Kelman did every 5.8 without doing other grades, then every 5.9 then every 5.10a. He did these when they were at or near the top of his ability. He found that some of the 5.9s were dramatically more difficult than others. Seems an experiment like that is probably as close to objectivity as we're likely to get.
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MH2
climber
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Aug 10, 2011 - 06:14pm PT
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Thank you, skykilo. Could you, here or elsewhere, tell us something about Wild Turkey? I know where it is and how to get to it and look at it every time I go to Squamish, and point out to my partner that no one is on it. I have heard several accounts that call into question the 11a rating. Probably the least-climbed 3 star route around here. Closest I've been was meeting Gord Ross, who took the picture of John Furneaux "on Wild Turkey." That, and noticing from the top that one could lower in and self-belay it.
And Grug has no idea where Wild Turkey is? That advances the senility hypothesis.
(He did the FA).
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426
climber
☬
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Aug 11, 2011 - 08:40am PT
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Hrmpf, from the 'tone' of your post jammer, it would seem that you are/have determined that Luz is "5.12" (whatever its a number eh)...but if one has beef imo it's all theoretical ruminations until you du it and give ite a "personal grade"....on your 8a scorecard
If I have misconstrued; mea culpa...
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2011 - 09:55am PT
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MH2, technically I don't think you call it senility if you've always been that way (just ask my climbing partners). I only vaguely remember Wild Turkey. I actually wanted to name it Midnight Movie. I had thought we had originally rated it 5.10c, but there's 1 50/50 chance I'm just remembering wrong, I suppose. I believe it was the only FA I ever did with George Manson, one of the most charismatic people I ever met.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 12, 2011 - 01:14am PT
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Wild Turkey is given 5.10d in the 1980 guidebook. Not that you'd necessarily want to rely on it.
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MH2
climber
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Aug 12, 2011 - 03:40am PT
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"technically I don't think you call it senility if you've always been that way"
Yes, sensu stricto.*
Wow! That George Manson? Il miglior fabbro? I came across fragments of his charisma in Ontario.
And yes, again. Both your guide, Anders, and Kevin's earlier one rate Wild Turkey 10d.
* first known use in 1902 - what kind of Latin is that?
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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Aug 12, 2011 - 09:49am PT
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I just don't like this kind of BS in my backyard. This is Vedauwoo, not fairywonderland.
We're not splitting atoms here, climbing is a free form sport, very size dependent, especially in cracks. Go and sit up in that cave and it will be obvious to you why there is a little diversity in the grading.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 12, 2011 - 10:46am PT
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This is Vedauwoo, not fairywonderland
Almost t-shirt slogan worthy, or bumpersticker or something. My first time there it felt like a fairy wonderland...magical. The thin crisp air, brilliant lichen contrasting with the almost pink hued rock, domes amongst the aspens and pines, the rich history of flares and wide cracks.
Damn, now I'm all wound up. Think I'll surf over to expedia and see what a plane ticket will cost me to Laramie.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Aug 12, 2011 - 11:38am PT
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"I just don't like this kind of BS in my backyard."
Do you mean the BS of people having different opinions on the rating of a
climb, or is there some other kind of BS that i can't see?
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