Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
"As believers, you are right to hold fast to the concept of God as Creator; you are right to hold fast to the truths of the Bible; you are right to hold fast to the conclusion that science offers no answers to the most pressing questions of human existence; and you are right to hold fast to the certainty that the claims of atheistic materialism must be steadfastly resisted."
Francis Collins, Language of God
So Sam Harris tears him apart in his latest book. As he should.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
haven't tried it, ed, but if it's gonna be "like 5.2" maybe i will. you're from this planet, right? that 5.12c double-star will look good on my climbing rez.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
it's not the lead, it's the energy density... most of the lead just keeps going through the interaction region but the increase in the hadronic field strength getting that many hadrons (in this case, the protons and neutrons of the lead nuclei) in such a small volume takes you to energy densities similar to the early era of the universe...
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
that's okay, fattrad, ed kinda covered it and i'll havta re-read stuff to see if rrradam's right about all that three-minute helium. take my advice--don't get too excited about any of it. it changes regularly.
we really oughta have this group get together at paisano, however. i gotta see ed flash that puppy.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
unfortunately my very brief flirtation with hard (>5.11a) off width might be a thing of the past... certainly not something I'm going to be doing for at least a year... gives you time to practice, Tony, and wire that rig! then we can go and do it and you can show me how it's done!
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
to be fair to randy leavitt, from my memory of the movie he made probably 20 years ago, he did make it look easy. heavied up with a lot of clothing, seemed like arms and legs were going deep into that fissure for relatively easy locking jams. the hard part must've been the upside-down circulation--that would be exhausting. requisite training would be straightforward: get it up to 500 situps a day.
i think john long's first free ascent was more traditional upside-down jamming. and i'll never forget chuck wilts's guidebook comment: "will probably never be repeated".
someone should link chris mcnamara to this. OT discussion can drift full circle back to climbing.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2010 - 12:15pm PT
|
paisano jamcrack used to be rated 5.9, seems to have been upgraded. i struggled up it once in climbing shoes, placing big hexes on lead shortly before friends came along. they say if you wear the klunkiest pair of heavy-soled work boots, the easy footjamming makes it a breeze.
i saw a photo once of john long's remarkable lead of the overhang, taken as he turned the corner out there. this was done in 1973. did he use bongs? hexes? combination of both?
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
|
just watching this stuff gives me washboard abs.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
|
Our Rockermike reminded me of this one:
"Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth". Ludwig Borne
Paranormalists, supernaturalists, take note.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 10:29pm PT
|
Anywhere near Remsen or LeMars, Iowa, Fructose?
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2010 - 11:02pm PT
|
Tape, Fire Ballets and #4 Camalots
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 12:47am PT
|
Poster grade composition! Just needs your face taut with conviction and purpose.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 10:57am PT
|
Thanks Rockermike! Interesting journal.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
|
I think the dichotomy is over drawn, and a very odd one in my way of thinking, rockermike & Jan.
The author of that piece succumbs to the apparent need of spiritual people to insist that there is some externality to the spiritual experience, a place "in the real world." It is not necessary, of course, and the commonality of the experience can be a part of the similarities we share as organisms of the same family, species, genus, etc.
We are certainly conscious of things beyond the physical boundaries of the universe. We are aware that consciousness extends beyond our own species. We have experiences that are difficult to explain within the construct of that physical universe. We are aware of a "universality" of existence.
But these things that we are aware of need not have a special explanation beyond the material. And basing them in the material does not diminish their spiritual importance or quality. But this world of the mind, of thought, of interpretation of experience are important to both science and spirituality.
Science does not lessen these experiences, it seeks to understand the root cause of the experience and their dimension and extent. It starts from a simple curiosity and an application of a technique which is empirically based, but requires rigorous logical consonance with the larger body of scientific work. The fact that I know the structure of stars, the constitution of the solar system, the scattering of light, does not make a beautiful sunset less spiritual to me. I can appreciate that experience both esthetically and scientifically.
So it is odd to me that one would argue so doggedly to move the spiritual experience into the realm of "reality" beyond its obvious position as a part of our experience of thought and consciousness. There does not have to be some other universe out there, beyond our scientific reach, for all those experiences to be valid. We may have to seek some other interpretation of those experiences, and one that I think is more complete and nuanced than some of the traditional interpretations, though on some of those an extension may be possible.
But it is a rhetorical device to condemn "scientism" and praise "science."
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
|
If one originally had a 1967 VW bug and then a few years later bought a Chevy nova would you say you're a distant cousin of VW?
This is the major defect of body consciousness.
We are not the body ......
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!