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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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the entire fossil record consists of transitional forms.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Are we here because of God(s), luck, or inevitability?
With billions of galaxies, each having billions of planets and stars, and given astronomic time scales is it inevitable that intelligent life would develop? Or is there an intelligent force out there that created things so we would develop? Or is God more like Einstein's view of God - that the existence of everything is it's own reason and reflection? Or are we just extremely lucky to have the perfect conditions for life, a one time fluke in the universe?
It's similar to why are we here as individuals. What are the chances that our parents would meet and create us? What are the chances that out of millions of sperm the one that created us is the one that got to the egg?
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?
Oh, and people aren't wearing enough hats.
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WBraun
climber
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genes and DNA are responsible for all our traits and existence.
Genes and DNA are still material. Your car is comprised of electronics and many material elements created and built by a superior living entity (soul).
The car will never run nor be built without the superior energy (soul) creating or starting it up.
Keep religion out of the topic as it is sectarian and material too.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I like one of the theories Ardi helped scientists propose. That the males of these early hominids traded food for copulation. Not much has changed in the last 4 million years. :-)
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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In the 150 yrs. since Darwin wrote his Origin of Species the fossil record is not only lacking
in the transitional forms he said would be needed to complete his theory, it is COMPLETELY
DEVOID of any transitional forms.
Are you daft?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Flanders, was that tongue in cheek or do really not get it? Every single fossil is a transitional form. So are you, so am I. Time is Really Big! I know that is hard to take in, but if you can comprehend the scale, it all makes sense.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2009 - 01:39pm PT
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Run the random tape of the 4.5 billion year evolution of planet earth over
and over, and there is a good chance that our species never evolved.
This assumes the exact delicate and perfect makeup of carbon and oxygen
necessary for life to evolve into mammals, to primates, to us.
We are a random, statistically improbable happening. So really, quite special.
Somewhere short of a billion years from now, our sun gets so hot that it
makes life impossible on this planet. Our prognosis is very poor.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sheesh, Werner. You are exasperating. You are one of the least tolerant of others' views and yet spew your own, crazy beliefs as self evident truth.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Nav, I am curious about the source of your statement that Einstein believed
that without god, science is lacking.
I don't recall him making a statement like that.
In fact, on numerous occasions, Einstein quite clearly said/indicated
that he was at the least an agnostic, and most probably an atheist.
This can easily be fact checked by googling Einstein - god -beliefs, etc
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WBraun
climber
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Not everything is in Google.
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WBraun
climber
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Yes Einstein was an impersonalist.
99% percent of the world ultimately sees God as impersonal aside from those that say God does not exist at all.
Where does consciousness originate? What material instrument can acurately measure consciousness?
None, yet everyone knows it's existence.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Another fossil was recently found in the Olduvai Gorge which completely refutes any notion of "intelligent" design.
edit:
Jeff I don't think you'd take offense, but just in case.. just kidding.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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PROOF!!!! There IS a reason for evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Fet - your graphic, while silly, is thought provoking:
Somewhere back on that evolutionary chain is Ardi. And Ardi, from everything I've read so far, would probably have been the best rock climber (not the best tree climber - any chimp could kick Ardi's ass) in our whole family tree.
Basically fully upright, able to balance on her feet; less massive than us (great strength to weight); a huge ape index; with powerful arms and hands; and with opposable toes.
So your graphic is interesting, but the rope and cliff is on the wrong species - it should be on Ardi!
GO
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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I don't get how that disproves anything....all Genesis says is God created....it doesn't say how he did it it's just that He did it. There is a really insightfull book called Genesis and the Big Bang and it's about how there is nothing really contradictory about what science is learning and what is written in the original Hebrew.( I know run on sentence.)
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Howweird, it probably has to do with the ability to travel great distances. Man would migrate to areas with food/water. Track game for a great length of time until the prey was worn out.
A man is probably superior to other primates when it comes to long distance treks. Different niches.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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None, yet everyone knows it's existence.
You assume too much.
Right on Wes... I guess that there's a few of us that don't count in the "everyone" word.
No... I don't know it exists. I have no proof of anything. The world is relative to your perception of it. Supreme consciousness only exists if you tell yourself it does. But then... there's nothing to prove you just told yourself anything.
Non-sequiter, werner. A logical Fallacy.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Eeyonkee wrote: "It's interesting that the Catholic church has made a stance that belief in evolution can coexist with religious doctrine. Just a little digging, however, turns up a lot of problems with any God-guided evolution. For instance, if you believe that humans have souls (and animals don't), at what juncture in human evolution did this occur? Was it at the ape/hominid juncture, the hominid/homo juncture, or perhaps the homo/homo sapien juncture? Maybe it wasn't until just before recorded history, after homo sapiens had already been around for a quarter of a million years or so. It would seem so arbitrary. Largo mentions de Chardinn, who thought about this subject, but who did not have the knowledge we now have of all of the competing species in the genus homo, all except us who have gone extinct."
The preceeding argument has widely been used to investigate consciousness, especially self-consciousness. That is: WHEN in our evolutionary process did we become self-aware? The problem with this is - as the psychobiologists and neuroscientists are saying - that it assumes a purely reductionistic and mechanistic view of consciousness as a "thing" or property "created" by a brain - IOWs, consciousness can be "reduced" to a mechanistic function of atomic brain activity. Problem is, leading neuroscientists say this isn't so. Consciousness is not something the brain "does," it's what the brain "is."
Someone earlier mentioned how gravity doesn't seem to have a mechanism, and yet gravity is said to be the strongest force, overall, in the material world.
Go figure . . .
Interesting, no?
JL
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Hi All,
Are you Groovin' on the full moon tonight...big dark sky mixed with floaty puffs of alabaster cloud. Jess spoke to climbers near Mt. Whitney where the glorious flash lite moon is highlite outlite ing the peaks with Alpine Glow.....whoa, life don't get any better. Appreciate it while yo healthy and can breathe. Or Appreciate it cause you are alive.
And Yah, the Question, does it really matter?
And that's another Question, where does matter come from and who or what caused it to be ? Not me ....no sheee.
Matter matters not dear friends. Enjoy the moon and all the peace and beauty sended from it. lynnie
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