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NotIt
Trad climber
Malaga Cove
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Jul 29, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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JLP -
Just to be clear, I ain't complaining. I'm worried for them.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Jul 29, 2009 - 04:55pm PT
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If DR says Moon Goddess is pretty loose and risky.......
It is.
Its like Simon Cowell telling some young, psycho, off pitch American Idol wanna-be that they should find a new job. DR is the Simon Cowell of the Sierras. You might not like what he says....but you gotta respect it.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 05:22pm PT
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"'Can I be the first with the stones to suggest that a LOT of accidents and near-accidents are caused by....drumroll.......SUPERTOPO!'
Complaining about rookies is what rookies do. There were new climbers in the mountains long before Supertopo."
Not really. I can understand the gist of Clint's original thread, but let's face it, there is a whole new generation of climbers bred in the gym who don't get the same tutelage trad climbing on real rock that many of us did. It's my opinion (and apparently others' as well) that guidebooks that profess to provide lots of beta create the perception in some people's minds that they may be more in control of their environment than they actually are.
Sure Temple Crag has loose sections, like many routes in the Sierra. If experienced trad climbers who have dealt with that issue over the years still have accidents or near misses due to loose rock, of course newbies without that experience climbing in the same enviroment are likely to have way more.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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I haven't done a ton of high sierra routes, but I can say that without a doubt Sun Ribbon was the loosest route I have done by far. Second place is Venusian.
That said, we didn't knock anything off unintentionally. We did pluck and chuck a few daggers.
It took us 9 hours to do Sun Ribbon, and a big part of that was that the 4th class which I thought would go really fast, went slow because we had to really be delicate in the loose crap, step around and over, and test a lot of things before going.
Too loose? Depends on how comfy you are on loose rock. It's heads up for sure, but I sure had a good time.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2009 - 06:51pm PT
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David,
> really, how is the rock on slesse?
Quite good. I've climbed the regular route with my dad, and the NE Buttress with Steph. The NEB is a contact zone between regular granite and something else, so it's nice featured granite. While the rock is good, getting onto the NEB is quite hazardous unless you wait until after the pocket glacier has slid (which does not happen every year). In 2007, we had planned to do it in mid-August, but the glacier had not slid, so we put it off. In mid-September the glacier had slid, so we went back and did it.
http://sabegg.googlepages.com/slesse
In July 2007, a party attempted it, but a chunk of the glacier slid and killed one of the guys. It wasn't safe to recover the body until September. When we did it, part of their rope was sitting there on the slab.
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:41pm PT
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To all who think it is too loose to climb in the Sierra's
You are right, stay away.
Thank you
MMM
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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Ah but those celestial aretes draw the climber in like a moth to a flame. The climber only discovers the aretes' true nature up close.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2009 - 07:54pm PT
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Let's blame the person who named Temple Crag in the first place?
If it had been named something less attractive, like Heap o' Scree, maybe people would not get so psyched on climbing there?
One time I did a FA at the Pinnacles that was pretty rotten/bad. At one point during the climb, a moment of inattention caused the rope to run through a pile of gravel and shower a little kid on the hiking trail directly below. He started crying, and I got a reality check. I picked out an appropriate route name for it:
Flies on a Pile
(sort of like Figures on a Landscape / Boogers on a Lampshade?) I don't think it has seen many ascents.
My favorite route names for loose climbs are both in Connecticut:
Sway It Ain't So (arete with loose(?) block)
Stacked Deck
(I haven't actually done these climbs, just appreciated the route names)
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
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My criticism is a bit unfair, because I haven't climbed at Temple Crag - just looked at the photos and read some trip reports.
It's true that those peak names like Forbidden and Terror may be a bit over the top.
Although right around July 4th, there was an accident and drawn out rescue on Mt. Terror. (Leader either stepped on a loose block or pulled it off; he fell a ways and broke his femur). Mt. Terror is like a perfect peak name for the TV news! Check out the broadcast video (14 second commercial, then 3 minutes of the rescue):
http://www.kirotv.com/video/20009916/index.html
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
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I've always heard that place was crap!
I'm glad you are still with us Beth! I love you!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
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Just did Dark Star yesterday. The first 7 pitches were excellent climbing on good rock. After that,there is a lot of meandering around on the ridge with a fair amount of loose rock that doesn't present much of an objective hazard.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:44pm PT
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del cross you have a point- a lot of climbers are looking for a "safe adventure." Safe and adventure are antithetical terms.
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Russ S.
climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:46pm PT
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"I haven't yet climbed in the Cascades. Aren't there a lot of overly dramatic names up there like Forbidden Peak and Mt. Terror?"
Overly dramatic? No, the names just mean what they say, "Forbidden Peak is forbidden you Cali swags" and "you will experience terror if you trend on Mt Terror". By naming them this way, there no need for a guidebook because you know all you need to..... [ ;-) inserted for the humor impaired]
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:58pm PT
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I have done one route twice, on Temple. The Arête of July 26th. Which is my birth date. I did it on my 26th birthday. However, rock fall on the down climb cost me only a new rope. The following year a took a client up the same route. More rock fall. But, we survived.
So, as I said before.
ROCK FALL IN THE SIERRA'S STAY OUT, THANK YOU MMM
Great Day in Ventura
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Jul 29, 2009 - 09:27pm PT
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Donini sounding like the experienced alpine climber that he is. There is much loose rock on Temple, but it does not in general pose an objective hazard. It's not raining down on you from someplace far away. Sounds like many incidents were caused by leaders pulling rocks off. I don't know what to say about that. My experience is that sure there are rocks you don't want to pull on, but you need to continually test and pull only on the solid stuff. Plenty of that around too I've found!
Earlier someone mentioned supertopo's influence on putting noobs in places they shouldn't be. My experience is that ST topos tend to give lots of beta on linking pitches. This is a great idea for speed, but a poor idea for rockfall. The nature of a lot of sierra backcountry climbing is short steeper sections separated by large ledges and blocky sections with a lot of loose stuff on them. Even if you place no pro, you still can get a lot of rope drag. This makes the climbing less fun, more strenuous, and increases the potential for the rope to cause rockfall.
When I did Venusian last summer, we did it in 16 pitches. Well, it would be more accurate to say we moved the belay 16 times, which included some short traverses along horizontal sections. That's the nature of the climb.
Tomo
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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Jul 29, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
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nothing to see here folks...more yellow tape please.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jul 29, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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If you want loose check out Mt. Morrison- Temple is COOL!!!
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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Jul 29, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
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c'mon Doug, bust out the Atomic Broom theory for all the folks here who have not heard it yet.
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chum
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 30, 2009 - 01:07am PT
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Is Temple a Choss Pile? Yep. Is it super fun? Heck yeah...I damn near took a big ride on a bookcase sized block. It reset itself and I was spared the big whip. Thanks Temple Gods!!
I climbed Slesse last year and was nearly wiped out by falling ice and rock BEFORE starting the climb. Objective hazards are a bitch too. AND, there was plenty of junk to negotiate on sections of THAT climb too. Don't believe the hype. Its an amazing route by the way.
If climbing were fishing then I wouldn't bother.
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