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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 14, 2009 - 07:43am PT
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How many of us got more careful about this kind of accident after it nearly happened to us?
It's a good use of this accident to spread the word and emphasize the point, Tie in or tie a knot!
It's a misuse of hindsight to heckle the victims for their obvious mistake.
If you don't often sport climb or do half-pitch climbs to fixed anchors, you might not realize how
easily this mistake can happen. Not that it should happen, but like kicking off a loose rock, it does.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 14, 2009 - 08:48am PT
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Horseshlt Larry.
How many stupid accidents will it take before Big Brother steps in to regulate or certify?
While stupidity has affected his partner worst of all, the ripple effects reach out to the community.
But here is something nobody has pointed out so far;
the practice of yoyoing is more harmful to the medium than the standard climb and rap routine because the rope cuts more pronounced grooves in the rock when it is weighted.
Not that any of today's climbers seem to give a crap about it.
Perhaps Big Brother SHOULD step in!
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Double D
climber
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May 14, 2009 - 11:00am PT
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First off I want to offer my sympathies for the injured climber and his partner. I wish him well for a speedy and complete recovery.
As stated above, accidents do happen. Anyone who’s climbed for any length of time knows this. The important thing is to learn from mistakes and implement HABBITS that reduce risk. I suspect that part of the problem here is the clash of two eras being trad and sport and the change in mindset and style of rope management.
BITD ropes used to be 150’ for a good reason; the standards were meant to promote safety. By standardizing maximum pitch lengths one could be assured that they could both get up and down with the use of a separate tag line. But there were many pitches where the belays used up too much rope and the standard “Euro” length of 165’ (50m) caught on for convenience and occasionally necessity. Enter the sport era where pitches were typically shorter and many yo-yoed up and down. Rope lengths increased to 60m to 70m to accommodate such routes for the “convenience” of not needing a second rope. This “convenience” also facilitates lowering verses rapping from a high-point or anchors as well as gives the leader an advantage of far less weight. The problem is that we have abandoned the standards of pitch lengths to coincide with single rope climbing, otherwise the standard rope length would be 330’. This collision of two era’s creates a problem in trad climbing where pitches are longer.
If we take anything away from this I hope that it encourages everyone to tie in at the belay end and use tag lines for trad routes. Be safe out there because gravity knows no mercy.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 14, 2009 - 11:09am PT
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I've said it before, I'll say it again- the overall climbing IQ is at an all-time low. Climbers are stronger and climb harder than ever, but, given the way they are introduced to climbing, and given today's climbers preoccupation with technology, accidents and near accidents that should never happen have become commonplace.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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May 14, 2009 - 11:33am PT
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personally, i take pride in doing things correctly. from tying well dressed knotts, to sorting the rack, to coiling the rope, and i expect the same from my partners. sometimes there is a series of extenuating circumstances that result in an accident. sometimes people get lazy and complacent, and don't give our dangerous recreational activity the respect it deserves, not an accident, a fukup.
i may not be a rockstart climber, but i aspire to be a safe and competent one, and i refuse to fukup like those guys did.
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eeh
climber
West Coast
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May 14, 2009 - 11:49am PT
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I almost dropped my partner once and I learned a huge lesson. I almost did the exact same thing described in this thread. One thing I have noticed since then that I wanted to comment on is this: So many belayers watch the climber while lowering their partner and not the rope. LOOK AT THE ROPE NOT THE CLIMBER WHILE LOWERING. They can give you verbal signals if they need to stop and grab gear.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 14, 2009 - 11:54am PT
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Donini: "Climbers are stronger and climb harder than ever, but, given the way they are introduced to climbing, and given today's climbers preoccupation with technology, accidents and near accidents that should never happen have become commonplace."
Worth repeating, although it has less impact here than at rc or a similar site.
Good luck to the guy who got hurt.
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WBraun
climber
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May 14, 2009 - 11:54am PT
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eeh finally nailed it.
That's the whole crux "watch the rope" and the "climber" simultaneously.
Not so hard .......
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 14, 2009 - 12:00pm PT
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This has become one of the most common mechanisms of climbing accident
"LOOK AT THE ROPE NOT THE CLIMBER WHILE LOWERING. They can give you verbal signals if they need to stop and grab gear."
Can't agree with this. If you tie in or have a knot in the rope (or are dang sure about the lengths of the pitch and rope), then watching the rope constantly is not necessary. Sometimes it's necessary to watch the person being lowered (perhaps they have to navigate a roof or clean a piece.)
Being mindful about your actions will prevent an accident like this (and many other accidents) Refuse to let your guard down
Peace
Karl
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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May 14, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
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Regarding the suppossed "tests" of ropes marked with sharpie: I dont believe a word of it. There is no way that a sharpie can reduce the number of falls by 50%! When people try to do science without blinding themselves from the results and providing controls and independent observers, the result is always the same; they end up "proving" exactly what they set out to try to prove, regardless of what is really the facts. This is not science, it is heresay.
That said, it is possible that chemical damage can happen. We saw how battery acid or Lab chemicals got on a rope that broke in the gym year before last. Furthermore, ink pens do contain acids that could theoretically affect the nylon sheath. But could someone explain to me how on Earth the core which is most of the strength in a dynamic rope could be affected by markings on the sheath? It does not make sense. The "testers" mentioned above probably chose older worn out ropes for the marked samples, or perhaps they stepped on the gas of their truck harder for the marked ropes, subconciously trying to make their point. As far as the accident itself, I pray for both climber and belayer that they recover from this tragedy.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 14, 2009 - 12:14pm PT
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Middle marks can be useful, but not nearly so useful as common sense.
I marvel at people so confident that they disdain from tying in.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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May 14, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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word
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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May 14, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
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if you are doing the ol hip belay, you feel the rope coming to an end.
Thats why I always get baked before belaying.
Your reaction time goes up ten fold, so even if the loose end goes thru the box, you snatch it with your left hand.
or right hand if you are a switch hitter.
just in the short year i have been here it has been
the box: 3
the climber: 0
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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May 14, 2009 - 12:36pm PT
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These lowering mistakes are not "acccident happen in climbing" they are the result of very sloppy climbing practices. The belayer is literally holding a life in his/her hands. If they can't take the precautions necessary to keep someone from getting hurt of dying then they shouldn't be climbing. They clearly don't understand the seriousness of the position they have assumed by holding the rope.
Bruce
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 14, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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Don't use a stupid-sleepy-inattentive belayer. Tie a frickin' backup knot in the end of the rope.
Best wishes to buddy for a recovery, it sounds pretty dire.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 14, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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Situational Awareness vs. Natural Selection.
heads up out there....hoping for a full recovery!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 14, 2009 - 01:00pm PT
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I hope the injured climber is OK.
I know a few fine and otherwise safe climbers that have been a party to this sort of thing. In the blink of an eye...
I'm partial to not getting lowered if it can be avoided. No one is as invested in my survival as me.
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creek
climber
UT
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May 14, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
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Sad to say, I was the person who failed my partner. Even though I thought it was a 60m rope, regardless of length i should have tied a knot as I could not see the end or travel of rope. I was belaying out of a back pack because the climb started in a sand box.
thankx to the powers for that sand because it was quite a fall and landing in the sand, along with the physical condition of my partner, prevent a serious tragedy.
I have been climbing for a a long time and have always considered myself safety conscious. This has been an all to costly reminder that complacency, disregard, oversight, how ever one wants to label it, must never be allowed to enter the climbing environment!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 14, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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I for one seriously respect you for having the stones to enter into this conversation with your honest words.
I am very sorry this happened, and like all climbers and many others I hope your friend makes a speedy and strong recovery.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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May 14, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Way to man up Creek. We all make mistakes but it takes sac to own up to them when something as nasty as this comes along.
A message to everyone... there are TWO ends to the rope and BOTH should be tied to something! As an old-school boy I am always tied into one end whether I am belaying or leading. Doesn't matter what you are using for a belay device... the end of the rope should not be able to pass through it EVER.
My thoughts to both you and your injured partner.
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