Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 01:00am PT
|
Link-
That's a level-headed response, but it bypasses one crucial aspect of everyone's past that will never simply vanish on it's own, an aspect realized years ago by the now-titantic "revovery movement." To wit: When you've blown it and offended and transgressed others, you must make amends to ever resolve the past once and for all. "Moving on" can be a position used where others are expected and almost obliged to forget without the transgressor ever asking for forgivness, and if the transgressor is too proud to clear the air, he's nothing less than an unremorseful cad, or worse, a narcissist who is either not aware of the harm he caused, or doesn't give a sh#t in any event. If the responses form folks on this thread are any indication, the situation is not likely to vanish unless the man comes clean.
We've all gone to the dark side--I've been there a thousand times--but I bet nobody here would not forgive the whole business if he made some movement toward clearing the air, or at any rate, furnishing his side of the story. That's 5.12 work, to be sure, but doable. I've done it. Repeatedly.
JL
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 01:47am PT
|
Well said John though in your case not surprising.
I was going to make some lame comment about being a jew and believing in atonement but you cut to the core of the issue.
Having been the subject of a similar thread on "another network" (with allegations even older) I specifically requested several people not to chime in on my behalf but rather to allow me to confront my critics with humor and forthrightness.
Where's Keith?
|
|
Link
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 02:43am PT
|
John,
Pretty level headed yourself. My god, what have we done... soon people will be exchanging quiche recipes and quoting Proust on the forum. I agree with your sentiment, and possibly someday the air will be cleared. Maybe by "move on" I meant something along similar lines: I don't foresee Keith jumping in the conversation any time soon, and until that happens it's doing none of us any good to rehash the same sordid tales from years gone by.
As you pointed out, given the anger that has built up there's some serious uphill work to be done. 5.12 work, to be sure. To drive the metaphor home, 5.12 is hard, but not impossible, and if my experiences with Keith in recent years are any indication, he's well on his way to red-pointing that project. Let's throw some encouragement instead of short roping him.
Just a thought. I can't believe you used "to wit" in a post. You bastard.
-Link
|
|
Dapper Dan
climber
The OC
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 12:27pm PT
|
Ron olevsky should shoot up Lober's car with one of his high powered automatic weapons...
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 12:27pm PT
|
Ah yes! "The duality of our plight" it is indeed.
And theirs too! (To protect and preserve AND provide for the public enjoyment thereof!)
I tried the SAR # last night because Werner dared me to, but in truth I care not about an ancient gripe. We've all been A-holes in our time, but not all of us have seen ourselves as shining examples of protectors of justice and civility.
Bottom line;
We don't pay our cops enough, and you get what you pay for.
We got Lobo.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 12:39pm PT
|
Dapper, let's not get carried away (or even cuffed). My weapons have substantial muzzle energy but are not full-auto OR select fire.
(Photos in mags can be done with loaners.)
As for targeting vehicles or anything there's a certain threshold of justification.
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is final.", Wyatt Earp
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 12:59pm PT
|
Honest Abe Lincoln wrote: "I can't believe you used "to wit" in a post. You bastard."
I'm always clowning around with the language, Link. You might be amused to know that my cousin was head ranger when I was a regular in the Valley. Back then (ask Warner), we had a safety valve for ranger/climber hostilities: a softball game. Wicked fistfights used to break out during these games. I used to come out of those games with a split lip, shiners, et al. I almsot broke my hand on Tim Setneca's hard head. Those were fun times.
JL
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 01:47pm PT
|
Wanted to see something like that in Zion about a decade ago, but there's enough soft rock.
I wanted to play hardball.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 03:52pm PT
|
Chuck Cockeran (SP??) once hit a softball like 400 feet. We all just watched the thing arc through the sky, like a UFO. F*#king thing sailed 50 over the left flelder's head and landed in the loop road. No sh#t.
JL
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 04:14pm PT
|
Loop road?
I remember you guys hitting those towering homers outa there. Sh-it I could only hit measly line drives when I connected to the ball. WTF I need to eat more wheatees or whatever you call that cereal.
|
|
wildone
Social climber
the little ditch
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 04:14pm PT
|
One thing to say about lobo, when the valley flooded a little while back, I rode my bike over to sentinel bridge to take pictures. Had to ride through a section of water about 100 yards long, maybe a little over a foot deep. On my way back toward the village, riding in said pool, I hear a rig coming toward me from behind. I'm riding walking speed to keep from getting wet from the wheel spray. I look over my shoulder, at the very start of the pool, is a ranger rig with two dudes in it, yellow shirts both, SAR. I look forward, I'm about twenty yards from dry ground, I'll probably make it before I get doused by the rig's rooster tails from the wheelwells. Nope, rig audibly speeds up, and as I'm TEN FEET from the end of the pool, the rig goes by me, I'm on the extreme left side of a two lane road where the water is most shallow, and this rig is in the middle, with PLENTY of space to go right to avoid dousing me, and PLENTY of time to slow down for maybe, oh, I don't know, 3 seconds, until I'm out of the pool. Nope, it's lober in the driver's seat, he's not even looking at the road as he drives by, he's intently staring at me, neck craned, face to the glass, smirk intact, as he douses my lower half with water. I was less than 5 feet from the end of the pool when he soaked me. None of this was embellished in any way, and is not aa crime, I realize, just another example of the kind of thing he could NEVER get in trouble for and does all the time. Just an example of a person who goes out of his way to be a dick.
BTW, I've felt his cuffs, for something my friend did, and while legally correct in his dealings with us, he was as nasty, and condescending as he could possibly be, without doing something to get himself fired for. And Carly's really nice.
|
|
Good Morning!
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 05:45pm PT
|
Hey Largo,
"You might be amused to know that my cousin was head ranger when I was a regular in the Valley."
I just met him last year in the Tetons. That fella has a few stories under his belt, huh? It must have been alot of fun hangin' out with that crowd...
MZ
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 06:27pm PT
|
Wildone--
Does that mean we shouldn't expect a "Sorry about that," anytime soon from the Sherrif?
JL
|
|
dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 06:35pm PT
|
I have long discovered that there is no smoke without fire.
Ron's recollection is a clear enough indication of a man's character. Sure, people change. Some even become born again :)
|
|
Jobee
Social climber
El Portal
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 06:48pm PT
|
gentlemen, ladies, your panties are in a bunch; i was sickened after just a few postings; sigh
i've worked beside keith lober on a number of occassions...sure glad he was there;
you can bet you'll wish he's there if you're ever in a dire situation; life blood is a precious thing.
go easy on yourselves, none of this flack matters nor does it become any of you.
"to hear complaints is wearisome alike to the wretched
and the happy" -samuel johnson
|
|
Good Morning!
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 07:06pm PT
|
Nicely said Jobee!
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 08:04pm PT
|
Sometimes smoke isn't smoke.
It can turn out to be dust or steam or even mist.
The native name for Victoria Falls translates as the smoke that thunders.
Assumptions may be the greatest danger we face.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 08:27pm PT
|
What you wankers are trying to do is called "deflection." I.E., the problem isn't really the Sherrif's sometimes eratic behavior, rather the rest of us who have the temerity to mention issues which, according to the deflection model,is actually an indication of a character weakness on our behalf. So we'll deflect attention from shameless acts of cowardice, bullying and ill will and instead try and train attention onto the Sherrif's virtues. But of course, the problem is not the Sherrif's virtues, hallowed and many as they may be.
Deflecting is a kind of schizo-reasoning that typically comes from alchoholic parents. It's also a blue ribbon example of all-or-nothing thinking, known far and wide as a cognitive distortion. Bald-faced denial is another apt term. Fact is, the more you argue that we are the problem, the farther from the truth, and the more crazy-making, the whole thing gets.
A problem of any kind begs to be resolved. But to resolve a problem you have to first muster the sac to admit there is a problem, focus on what's true about the problem (rather than divert attention to what's not the problem), and go from there.
Otherwise it's just a circle jerk inside the notorious "blue wall."
JL
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2005 - 11:58pm PT
|
Let's all not forget last October either...
|
|
Michael Moron
Social climber
Davison, MI
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2005 - 12:49am PT
|
"We all want so badly to be angry; angry at the rangers, angry at the climbers, angry at the concession, angry at the government, angry at the tourists... Move on."
Not all of us. I don't like being hassled by regulations and their enforcers any more than the next person. So, I follow the rules to keep them out of my hair and when I don't follow the rules, I make sure I don't get caught.
What is funny, is that this Lober guy could probably kick the asses of all these bad dudes that are mouthing off about him.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!