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BillL
Trad climber
NM
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"No one is making Mimi or locker, or anyone else, read this."
I believe their interest has to do with caring about others.
Bill
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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The reason the demands for a report are so difficult is that we're not talking about demands made upon the cops, or the nps or frickin yosar.
the folks involved are largely woody's friends and partners, none of them, from what i can see, accustomed to losing close friends to sudden accidents nor professionally trained leo or sar. moreover all of them, even locker, appear to be working at full-time jobs in addition to trying to cope with the personal loss. writing a sound accident report that balances the accounts of the various eyewitnesses and responders is not that easy under good circumstances.
what they've told us so far is that the situation involved nothing that would create imminent danger to climbers currently in the park; and that they will eventually say something. the publication of the official nps report will create its own deadline-- i can't imagine eyewitnesses will refrain from contributing if the nps report were to turn out to be erroneous or lacking in useful detail.
think back to a different incident. a few weeks ago, someone went over the falls in the ditch. everyone immediately wanted to know the details-- what happened, how, the body, etc. etc.
werner, wisely and professionally, declined to hand out that beta over the internet. we're trusting his judgment that there isn't anything there that present us with imminent danger, even though lots of us wander round the upper falls from time to time.
the constant demands for immediate detail add to the burden of those who are close family and friends or even victims. i don't see what difference a few more weeks could possibly make. anyone who has a burning desire to work out what happened, can read what's already been posted and then go through the guidebook and arrive at the likeliest scenario. if that's not enough to hold you for a few weeks, or if you're incapable or that level of inferential judgment, then whine away.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Rectorsquid - back off, you vulture!!!!!!!!!!1111
It's best to keep this swept under the rug...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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No One is asking Locker or his friends for any info. If they wanted to act with dignity they would just ingnore this thread. They are under NO OBLIGATION to PROVIDE ANY information regarding the incident. Instead they seem to be proactive and attack anyone who questions the incident.
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Mimi
climber
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I don't really have a dog in this fight other than I finally got aggravated and weighed in due to the growing level of persistence to force a report from someone. I really did try to distance myself from my fondness of Woody, who I never even met, except on here.
I have an opposite view of the pushy concept; internet anonymity allows some of you to be more than pushy. You totally ignore the requests of his friends. The same people who will eventually discuss the facts of the incident. Give it a rest! It's funny to see the ambulance drivers become the chasers.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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i'm with mimi and matt on this one. give it a rest.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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"No One is asking Locker or his friends for any info."
They're the ones who have it-- Wendell is one of Woody's partners. Al was climbing with him and was injured in the accident. Aside from that, there were at least 2 random eyewitnesses who posted incomplete and confused accounts. Everyone else (Largo et. al.) have 2nd hand accounts from these folks and the 1st responders.
Who else could you ask? Here's a list: NPS, SB Co. Sheriff's and Coroner's Office, whichever ambulance co. sent the responding vehicle, any SAR involved. They're are publicly accessible. Of course, not a frickin' one of them is going to tell you or anyone else jack until an official report is filed.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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My point is that the most vocal person on this issue is Locker. He is not obligated to say anything to anyone. Not even to the athoritys as he was not to my knowlege an eye wittness. Had he played it cool with the no comment routine this thing would have faded away. Instead he goes prpoactive and tries to suppress ANY talk about the accident details which makes the whole thing look really suspicious.
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Mimi
climber
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tradboy, that's utterly ridiculous. You are one of the visitors here that refuses to read for comprehension.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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This ongoing conspiracy of silence feels unnatural - and it is unprecedented as far as I can recall.
We are KNOTT a bunch of "vultures" eager to be entertained - many of us were friends
of Woody, although we never met him. This just seems wrong and unfair to us friends.
Are there some details of the story that are so sordid that it's too embarrassing to share?
That is the only explanation that makes sense. Was either climber drunk of stoned?
FWIW, I did my first free-solo at Lover's Leap after 5 beers, in which I was the 3rd guy
in a "train" going up the 1st pitch of Haystack followed by the 2nd pitch of Pop Bottle.
One guy in the train (who posts here occasionally) went straight up and finished Haystack.
I didn't feel good doing that, so I followed the other guy up what is known as Haybottle™
I'd never been on Pop Bottle before. I had never free-solo'd before. I was legally drunk.
Now assuming I'd fallen near the top of Haystack's 1st pitch, it's about 160 feet at least.
I'd be dead for sure. So if a bunch of people knew I was drunk and yet omitted that part
of the story, or worse yet, omitted all details of the story, that would be utter, compete bullshít.
So what's so shameful or sordid that it's being so diligently hushed up?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Wow, you read incredibly fast. Or are you responding to my earlier post?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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hahahahahahahah.
suppress, suspicious, conspiracy! locker as big brother! the trampling on the freedomz! the frustrationz of the non-localz! gratuitous friendship by virtual association!
the wearing of the tin foil hats!
hahahaha. work is finally done for today, officially! woo-hoo!
it's sunny out and i get to do a quick training run before the porkchops.
have fun kidz
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Mimi
climber
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The one just above. I don't read that fast. I try to soak in every word.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mimi, understanably you are touchy on this subject but calm down for a bit and look at it rationaly. Look at granitclimbers initial post. be honest with yourself and see that there is no bad intention with that post. If you can't or don't want to discuss the subject that is fine, Don't click on it. Telling people what they can and can't talk about looks bad especialy when it involves an accident.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Something tells me Woody would be highly amused by all this drama...
Am I wrong?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 06:06pm PT
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I agree with klk in post 58 (not his last post above), but I also agree with what Largo and Tyeary said in the other thread.
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Mimi
climber
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I thought about what Woody would be saying right now. And he may be really bummed about this whacking on his account. Or he could be laughing his ass off just the same. I hope it's the latter.
I'm actually not upset. GC intentionally diverted the topic from the other thread to stir the interest up again. It was disingenuous.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It took nearly eleven months before the official report on the death of Todd Skinner was public, and only after the news media made an FOI request for it. The Jackson Hole News & Guide published a summary - see http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=2198
Admittedly, that accident report required some technical and so time-consuming testing of the belay loop that failed, and Todd's harness. But it illustrates that it can take some time. Perhaps Werner, or other professional SAR people, can comment on 'normal' times for such reports to be issued, but several months may not be unusual.
It takes time to examine the site, talk with witnesses, do any testing that is needed, and sum it all up. In this case, the garbled nonsense in the news media suggests that it may be necessary to test some equipment (if it failed, why and how?), and perhaps other tests.
As with almost all rock climbing accidents, there was probably a subjective element, errors of judgment - the various hints that have been made indicate this. The full picture may be more involved.
Let's be patient, and honour the memory of Woody and the request of his family and friends, and let this one be. I'm sure that if there was anything of immediate concern, that we could all learn from, we would have heard it.
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