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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 31, 2009 - 08:19am PT
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The thing that bothers me with this mistake was that time durration. Most rapping accidents are flash decisions and over before you know it. Example.. Earlier this year I leaned back into a rap and I was only connected to the rope with my auto block. I never threadded my rap device! I skipped a crucial step and allmost gave you guys the opertunity to call me a moron, ect, ect... I did a stupid thing and the result was fast and irreversable. Rapping off the ends, lowering off the ends ect. is the same thing. By the time it happens its all over. The Rigid Designator incident there was a considerable time frame to correct the mistake.. How can someone hang arround yo,yoing for half an hour and not recall how they set the anchor??? Especially when it is their turn to do annother lap.
I mean no dissrespect and I know this is a touchy subject on this forum but if I was investigateing this incident I would have to ask if there was any hippy lettuce use involved.. Asking is not acuseing. Just a question that would INMOP be appropriate to ask when trying to determin the factors that may have contributed to an accident.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Mar 31, 2009 - 10:29am PT
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stupid is is stupid does....
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Cloudraker
Big Wall climber
BC
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Mar 31, 2009 - 11:00am PT
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stupid is is stupid does....
hey stupid, stupid is as stupid does.....
edit: sorry, couldn't help myself
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Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
Littleton
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Mar 31, 2009 - 12:08pm PT
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What a dummy.
I do like the name of the reporter tho. Our last names go very well together. :-)
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 31, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
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Mistakes tend to be made by those who are noobs and just don't know better, or by those that have been climbing for a long time and get lax with safety. This isn't a climbing specific thing, goes for all activities.
Double check, don't rush, and don't be too cheap to leave proper gear at anchors or when bailing. Also have the materials to re-place webbing and rap rings at permanent anchors. I was rapping off an ice climb I hadn't done before and found that the rap ring had been nearly worn through from idiots top roping through the ring. Unfortunately I didn't have a spare ring with me, but there was a lap link to back up the ring.
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KathyS
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Mar 31, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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"don't be too cheap to leave proper gear at anchors or when bailing"
Friends don't let friends rap off junk. I usually carry donor material to leave if there is any question. My life is worth way more than a nylon sling and a booty biner I got for free.
Kathy
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 31, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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#1; The first question is weather or not he was aware that he was just through the webbing and not through the rap biners or rings.
#2; Then the next question would be if he was aware that the rope was only through slings and not the metal why did he let his friends and himself lower and TR on that setup?
#3; Was he aware that the setup was incorect and then forgot that he set it up that way?
#4; Was he unaware that this type of rigging is allmost gaurenteed to fail in this application untill the moment it failed?
If the answer to #1 is. No he was Not aware that the rope was only through slings and Not through the rap rings or rap biners then you are back to a single incorect decision that was not checked or noticed by the other climbers in the party..
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 31, 2009 - 07:06pm PT
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rwedgee's video is why I don't climb iceicles!!!! (1:52 in the vid)
Not to mention all the sharp tools falling with ya. As Matt is fond of saying, "Ice is for cocktails".
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 31, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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Blue,
Looks like when your worst fears come to life.
I just stick on the wimpy fat stuff, that is attached to the walls. If you look at this pic where the two guys are approaching there is a free hanging bit of ice just a tad to the right of them. This year it formed all the way to the base of the wall. I thought I'd give it a go. When I approached it I noticed a crack that went clear through the base, that didn't instill much confidence. I figured I'd just bolder up it and see how it fealt. It just didn't sound good when I got on it, so, I got off it.
I e-mailed my buddy about that, and he said, oh yeah, the free hanging stuff always sounds wierd. Hmm, no thanks!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 31, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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glad he is going to be alright...
some of you on here are pukes.
remember the woodyst thread? everyone was so sensitive, but when you dont know the poor guy you throw out all manner of BS.
reminds me of jr high....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I watch that interview and he repetedly states that he CHOSE to use nylon instead of metal for his anchor. He does Not state that he accidently threaded the nylon instead of the metal. I really wish this guy would clarify that for us. And I would still like to know if Hippy Lettuce was involved. He also states that he would Not have made this mistake when he started climbing at age 15. Interesting stuff.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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I know and have climbed with Cri. No drugs involved. He made an obvious error on the anchor. I suspect he forgot they would be top roping after his lead. May be Oscar or Cris as he reads this can clarify but I bet he rapped off after leading (who hasn't rapped off slings) and then they decided to TR the route.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dane, thank you for answering that question. I will take your word for it.
See how easy that was.
Now if we can gets Cris take on weather he accidently missed the rings or did not use rings or biners on purpose.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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"I've never rapped off slings"
Sh#t,.no slings? I've rapped off freaking boot laces. Just never tried to TR off them. I don't generally look at every anchor as something to TR off...more likely just as a rap station to get off.
I might suggest if you have never rapped off just slings you've spent way too much time on the computer and not enough climbing.
I'd take Cri for a partner any time.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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By all accounts there were fixed rap slings with metal rings or biners. Why did Cri not use the rings/biners? was it accidental or deliberate. If it was deliberate why did he then allow people to top rope on this setup?
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Using the biner....no mistake
Having seen the biner and not using it..."my mistake"
Seems that question has already been answered.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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So he deliberatly did not use the biner knowing his friends were going to do laps on it?
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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"So he deliberatly did not use the biner knowing his friends were going to do laps on it?"
I can't answer that obviously. But I suspect that they hadn't thought about top roping the climb origianlly as all involved were capable of leading it.
But no one knowledgable..deliberately hangs a TR on just nylon unless they want to commit suicide or kill some one. I think your answer is in Cri's comments about when he first dropped on the TR as the original piece of webbing failed and then the second moments later. He mentions "knowing what had happened" and thankful he didn't hurt one of his partners by the mistake.
Some amazingly brilliant responses here. Hopefully something was learned by those needing a lesson. Cri certainly got his reminder to do it right the next time out.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dane, I ask this question as this is a situation that I have been in dozens if not hundreds of times. You just led a pitch and either lowered or rapped and someone wants to do a lap on my rope. Many times over the years I have had to answer that the rope was not set for a TR we better pull it and re lead or You better check it when you get up there to make shur its running right case I didn't set for a TR. Etc Etc. . I am just haveing a hard time wrapping my mind arround deliberatly not useing the rap biner and still letting someone run laps on the rope. I can see setting the ropes up and then realizeing that I didn't get through the rings and possibly being lazy enough to say what the heck, I am only rapping, it will be OK. (highy doubtfull as I would feel guilty for putting extra wear on the slings when pulling) I just cant get past the next part though.
I am certainly not above pulling dumb mistakes. I have had at least 2 close calls rapping. But those mistakes as mentioned earlier are usualy snap decisions. This was wicked prolonged. Especialy when Cri took an additional run up the climb..
Could it be possible that he was aware the whole time that he was running nylon on nylon and didn't think it was really that dangerous until he heard that pop?
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