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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jul 10, 2005 - 06:50pm PT
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"KEB, some people here try to sound sophisticated and try to 'snow job' people by acting ultra-intelligent, when, in fact, they don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. BTW, they will slam Fox News all the time but none of them will ever produce any evidence that Fox is slanted toward the right. They just seem slanted because they are "fair and balanced" and next to the normal media propaganda outlets that makes them look slanted to the right. "
Dooooood. Not only have I yet to see you post something intelligently written that wasn't written by someone else, you clearly don't even read other people's posts. I guess this fits in with the whole 'where is the outrage over dead Israeli children' when the media is swamped with it. The bias of Fox has been recanted in much detail on this forum, and even on recent threads. Just poke around a bit...I seem to recall entire threads devoted to it in past months. I realize that you want very badly for Fox to only 'seem' slanted due to your wishful bias of the 'rest' of the major media outlets, but the only way for you to maintain this idea is to continue burying your head up...er...in the sand. I know it easier to look to media that supports your desired worldview but you don't ever actually learn anything that way.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:03pm PT
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I just read HowweirdDean's most recent post and I'm with the elcapfool in never posting here again. I don't have any tolerance left and I found the answers I was looking for.
Damit Jason, just when some cool guys like you and elcapfool show up and get some interesting stuff going, and now you guys are leaving. Man, I’m bummed about that.
All over some dumbass comments made by the loser Howyweirdo?
I say shove it up his ass and make him suffer ......
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
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Personally, I don't think either of you have watched enough Al Jazeera to have ANY idea how bias their reporting is or isn't. And Howweird apparently doesn't even know what bias IS to begin making some sort of distinction.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:23pm PT
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hey billohreally-
what do you know about al jazeera, besides whatever donald rumsfeld says about them?
lois-
what bothers me about so many of my fellow americans, yourself included, is that you take no responsibility for the fact that you are fairly ignorant about certain things. you wrote something above about how you think your opinion should still be valid and meaningful in spite of your overall ignorance of world history, but what efforts do you make to edumucate yourself, other than ask your husband two questions a month?
do you lack intellectual curiosity?
do you lack the time to learn about the world for yourself?
i challenge you to read KDB's books, perhaps your husband will stop looking so pale when you ask your questions each month.
say, do you listen to any ragae music?
"don't know your past, don't know your future"
"how many people did that one catch"
"how many nations did that one ctch"
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Ouch!
climber
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:29pm PT
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Go here and read it daily for a few days, as well as Fox and the other outlets. Read the London and Tel Aviv outlets. Then tell me who is biased. Single point information is like single issue voters. Woefully out of it.
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:30pm PT
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Check em out for yourself. One cool and democratic thing about them is many stories have a space for posting below them. Folks from every extreme do post and it's possible to rate posts. I'd like to see Fox news do that.
http://www.aljazeera.com/
Peace
karl
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 10, 2005 - 07:37pm PT
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reagrding elcapguy's statement-
when gW was told that iraqis were attacking the supply chain and support vehicles during the push into iraq, killing american soldiers there, rather than fighting the attack helocopters and tanks on the front lines, he responded, "they fight like terrorists".
he was right.
they fight in the way that they expect will have the greatest impact upon their adversaries. they determine their best options, based upon their own resources and opportunities.
when you guys complain about being attacked on 9/11, does it occurr to you that our country has the military resources to extend into other countries, and that we are fairly unique in that regard? what exactly would be an "acceptable" type of attack? since our military is w/out equal, if you were going to attack the US, would you attack the military?
i am not excusing the terrorists who took down the WTC, but i also don't think it should be such a great suprise, and in light of the less than benign foregin policy that our country has shoved down the throats of the rest of the world for the last 50-100 years, i also think we should feel fortunate that it didn't happen any sooner. what should be a suprise to us is that it wasn't worse.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 10, 2005 - 08:00pm PT
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"they fight in the way that they expect will have the greatest impact upon their adversaries. they determine their best options, based upon their own resources and opportunities."
Exactly. This is the way that the Arabs defeated the Turks. Ever see "Lawrence of Arabia"? Read "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" and substitute "American" for "Turk" for a prescient view of today's events.
Too bad the gentleman in the White House spent his youth on cocaine and booze. Otherwise he might have educated himself as to the world and its history.
LEB: Imagine this: After Dec.7, 1941 FDR had declared war on Costa Rica.
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Ouch!
climber
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Jul 10, 2005 - 08:29pm PT
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After 9/11, the saga of Afghanistan may be recorded in history as one of the worst failures in foreign policy and military operations.
Instead of applying overwhelming force, Bush tried to do it on the cheap, reserving the main thrust for the debacle in Iraq.
Sneering at the rest of the world and going it alone, instead of remaining focused on the job at hand and pouring resources into making Afghanistan more than a subsidized opium farm for Al Qaeda.
What will his hubris dictate if the Taliban succeeds in overwhelming Pakistan and the nuclear weapons? No leader in that part of the world is safe if they side with the US. They can exist only in heavily fortified enclaves, pretty much isolated from their own people.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 10, 2005 - 09:15pm PT
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"you forgot poland"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 10, 2005 - 09:52pm PT
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Howweird,
Fortunately, French troops are in Afghanistan helping hunt down Al Quaeda.
Somebody has to do it.
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HovvweirdDean
climber
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Jul 10, 2005 - 10:08pm PT
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You don't even count. "Sneering it alone"
Hey England, Holland going at the world and, Australia, etc. You ain't sh#t in Ouch's eyes. You don't sh#t in Ouch's eyes. You ain't even count. "Sneering at the world and going it alone"
Hey England going at the world and going at the world and going it alone.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2005 - 12:55am PT
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Lois, just as your time is limited, mine is too. Rent "Outfoxed" it's entertaining, it's all about fox news. It'll tell you why Fox news is not really news
Peace
karl
PS. For an example, there was a study between viewers of Fox News and viewers of the Daily Show, (A comedy show about politics) The Daily Show viewers had more accurate knowledge of political facts than the Fox viewers. That's pretty sad.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2005 - 01:32am PT
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Hi Lois
No it's not like "Darts" It because Fox news hasn't bother to disabuse their viewers of lies like
1. The reason for terrorism is because they hate our freedom
2. Iraq was involved in 9-11
3. Iraq had WMDs at the time of the invasion
The fact that you appear to still believe those lies makes you an obvious Fox viewer.
I have perfect faith that you are a nice person, a good person.
It's not the worst fault in the world that you have been mislead, and that you, probably with good intentions, ask questions as if you are seeking knowledge and yet don't pay enough attention to the answers you are given. You didn't get to be a professor or a medical professional without tons of complex reading. This leads me to suspect you are either being lazy, or blind with denial because you don't want to question your beliefs, or just wasting our time.
Let's say one of your students says "I believe in drinking herb tea for allergy problems, what's wrong with that?"
You start an explanation of the body's reaction to preceived irritants, histamine response, and yada, yada, but the student says
"Could you just make it simple? The steam from the tea opens my nose and I feel better, what's wrong with that?"
You might say, "I've seen people die from allergies! Their throats close up if they don't get epi in time, then they need some anti-histamine that will kick in before the epi wears off!"
Then the student might say "I dunno, In the Spring my nose runs, I drink my tea for 3-4 weeks and my nose gets better. The herb book says that doctors treat us with artificial drugs in excess quantities."
How are you going to deal with that student?
Yes, they and their nose are harmless to themselves, but they don't have any business practiciing medicine, nor have they got knowledge from different sources, that might broaden their perspective.
I'm sure you're just fine. If you want to propagate your opinion here, you'll have to back it up with facts or be called on it. If you came to learn, you have to read the course materials
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2005 - 01:54am PT
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Just for you and Howard, Something from the Amazon review page of OutFoxed
David Cole
Iinnocuously enough. On Monday, June 21, a producer from Fox News's The O'Reilly Factor called to ask me to appear as a guest that evening to comment on a front-page story in the New York Times claiming that the Bush Administration had overstated the value of intelligence gained at Guant?namo and the dangers posed by the men detained there. I'm generally not a fan of shout-television, and I had declined several prior invitations to appear on O'Reilly's show, but this time I said yes. Little did I know it would not only be my first time, but also my last.
I sat in the Washington studio as the taping of the show began in New York with a rant from Bill O'Reilly. He claimed that "the Factor" had established the link between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, and then played a clip from Thomas Kean, head of the Senate's 9/11 Commission, in which Kean said, "There is no evidence that we can find whatsoever that Iraq or Saddam Hussein participated in any way in attacks on the United States, in other words, on 9/11. What we do say, however, is there were contacts between Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Iraq, Saddam--excuse me. Al Qaeda."
I was impressed. O'Reilly, who had announced his show as the "No Spin Zone," was actually playing a balanced soundbite, one that accurately reported the commission's findings both that there was no evidence linking Saddam and 9/11, and that there was some evidence of contacts (if no "collaborative relationship") between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Maybe all those nasty things Al Franken had said about O'Reilly weren't true after all.
But suddenly O'Reilly interrupted, plainly angry, and said, "We can't use that.... We need to redo the whole thing." Three minutes of silence later, the show began again, with O'Reilly re-recording the introduction verbatim. Except this time, when he got to the part about Kean, he played no tape, and simply paraphrased Kean as confirming that "definitely there was a connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda." The part about no link to 9/11 was left on the cutting-room floor.
Now it was my turn. O'Reilly introduced the segment by complaining that we are at war and need to be united, but that newspapers like the New York Times are running biased stories, dividing the country and aiding the enemy. "The spin must stop--our lives depend on it," O'Reilly gravely intoned. He then characterized the Times story that day as claiming that the Guant?namo detainees were "innocent people" and "harmless." He said the paper's article "questions holding the detainees at Guant?namo."
I noted that the Times had said nothing of the sort. And I pointed out that the article relied on a CIA study finding that the detainees seemed to be low-level and had provided little valuable intelligence.
That didn't convince O'Reilly, however, who again criticized the Times for misleading its readers by terming the detainees innocent and not dangerous. I replied that he was misleading his own viewers, by exaggerating what the Times had said. "No, I'm not," he retorted. So far, the usual fare on newstalk television.
But then I decided to go one step further: "It seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black, Bill, because I just sat here five minutes ago as you re-recorded the introduction to this show to take out a statement from the head of the 9/11 commission stating that there was no evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11."
Apparently O'Reilly does not like being called "the pot." He exploded, repeatedly called me an "S.O.B." and assured me that he would cut my accusation from the interview when the show aired. He also said I would "never ever" be on his show again. At this point, I wasn't sure whether to take that as a threat or a promise.
Sure enough, when The O'Reilly Factor aired later that night, both Thomas Kean's statement about 9/11 and my charge about O'Reilly deleting it were missing. All that was left was Bill O'Reilly, fuming at the liberal media's lack of objectivity and balance, and ruing the divisive effect "spin" has on our national unity.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2005 - 02:03am PT
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I hear he's a tiger with a lufa pad though
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2005 - 03:07am PT
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Hi Lois,
It's quite OK if you are busy and don't have time to do research. You should read the posts answering the questions that YOU POSED. I just think that if your time is that limited, you are wasting our time by asking us to post responses to your questions if you don't have time to read the responses.
If it took the one line, simplest analogy of Pearl Harbor and Costa Rica to get you to see the other side, it just means you aren't reading the rest of the the posts very well, because I know you are smart enough to comprehend better if you tried.
I didn't ask you to read ANY books btw.
You wrote:
"And, BTW, although I am not particularly thrilled about us being in Iraq anymore than you are - is it possible that he really did believe that there were WMD there? Does everything and everyone have to be evil or sinister? Could it ever be that someone in command does something because he really believed it to be in the best interest of people under his charge at that time .....and he did so based upon incorrect information. Incompetence in intelligence - yes, absolutely - evil, sinister and ulterior motives? Not necessarily."
Which just leads me to think you are wasting my time because the answers were covered earlier in the thead. But to make it simple and cover it again:
1; Just before 9-11 Colin Powell made a speech in Egypt saying Saddam had been disarmed and wasn't a threat anymore,.
2. The Secret Downing Street memos prove that the administration knew the WMD evidence was very weak, that Saddam wasn't a threat, and that "Intelligence was being FIXED" to justify war.
3. Inspectors were on the ground in Iraq with full access. They weren't finding anything. There was no way Saddam could attack while the place was being combing by the UN. It's laughable to think there was an immediate threat that justified an attack.
4. Ambassador Wilson, debunking lies about Nigerian Uranium, yada yada
It's that simple. You want to give the Bushies the benefit of the doubt, and because you don't have time to read the posts or study, there will always be doubt. So why bother to type this? It's all above in this thread but you're still asking the question. Why Bother? Tell us the valuable things that you do know and learn about the things you don't when you have time.
PEace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2005 - 10:45am PT
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"hate America"
That's how the Jodies/Howies of the world see anyone who opposes White House policies. They must hate America!
Then again, the Jodies of the world believe the world is 6000 years old, so reasoned thinking is not exactly one of their strengths.
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