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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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A tool with it's place, no doubt. I haven't been to that place yet, but I'm relatively new at this.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 19, 2009 - 04:22am PT
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A man can be in his strongest place, la querencia, and not be affected by ridicule.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Feb 19, 2009 - 11:26am PT
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"I concur with Elcapinyoazz: use a strong (double?) daisy, and let the lead rope run down, out of the way."
You mean some people clip the ROPE into the sliding "top-rope" piece!!!???
Wow. That never even occurred to me. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Not only would that create a huge fustercluck, it also doubles the force on the piece should you decide to fall.
I don't use a daisy, just a double-shoulder-length runner. But Fish's "Walk-the-dog" leash looks like just the ticket.
Brutus
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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I think a lot of people do this (push a rope-clipped piece above), actually. And, if you think about all of the images of people in a wide crack, reaching/pushing a cam up above them, with the rope clearly going through it, you'll probably know why. I'd say that most people do it, actually. They just don't know...
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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Feb 19, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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What do you mean by this, Nefarius?
Do you mean that most people have followed the example of the
pictures they've seen?
I've reset some pieces but never slid them very far. Not a brag, I just haven't done all that much, really.
I don't know if I would have thought about it well enough to
realize what a difference there would be.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
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I think it plays a part in it, for sure. There are not a lot of people out there climbing OW and a lot of people are hitting the net for ideas on technique, etc. If you see pics of people doing this, and then read about people pushing a piece ahead of them, it only seems natural. I don't think in all of the reading I've done about OW climbing that I've ever read anything about NOT clipping the rope into pusher piece.
edit: matter of fact, I've often heard people talk about/refer to things like having a top-rope when you're pushing your piece, etc.
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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OK, thanks.
I don't think I've read anything about pushing cams anywhere
other than this thread. Maybe I just didn't notice.
I've heard some talk but not paid enough attention.
I know Brutus and the Nurse refer to it as the movable toprope
or something like that, but clearly Brutus doesn't actually
clip the rope in.
Well, it's nice to learn the lesson before paying the price.
sm
EDIT
Well, if it's there I must have read it. Brainfarts or sump'n
WTF EDIT: I'm so much worse off than I thought...
It's the lowered expectations...I think I'm mentally competent
because I can remember the right answere when my brother asks
me what day it is...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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hahaha I posted in that thread too, Russ. Apparently I forgot about the discussion. Looks like scuffy is guilty too!
to be clear - I wasn't advocating, nor saying I do either technique. I was just saying that I think a lot of people push cams ahead of them and think that they have the rope clipped in as they do so.
I think I may have pushed one of my cams a bit on Pratt's. I was short on gear and trying to make it last as long as I could.
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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"I never said that. I know I never did, because it's not the
kind of thing I would ever say."
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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hahaha! you poor senile bastards!
Yeah, I recall the rope clipped in push thing being used and have seen it in pics. I've done it in a pinch,and it is kinda sucky.... and strenuous. With the cam on a Pusher™™, it is pretty effortless if the crack is continuous in size.
Not sure where the idea came from... maybe a hold over from wall climbing since there are daisy chains and stuff already in play. Using the daisy chains instead of the rope comes up all the time on walls, like for hooking etc. Maybe?
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Feb 19, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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That's a good looking cam that Tom posted.
I've never owned a cam larger than the old Camalot 4.5, but then again I've never gone out looking for trouble (wide cracks) either.
Maybe I might invest in a big cam before I get laid off. What is the cost of those cams bigger than the 4.5?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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"hahaha! you poor senile bastards!"
It's all a blur after a couple of days, lately! hahaha
So, Russ... Can I swing by, with some beers, and purchase a Pusher™ in a couple of weeks, when I am in Josh?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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Nope...... but I'll give you one. Keep me posted on when you are down this way. Maybe even sneak in some Wide
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P.Kingsbury
Trad climber
the jeep
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:31pm PT
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I've always clipped the rope through the 'pusher' piece...
it seemed like on some routes in the creek 'big baby', 'big guy', and 'monster truck' you can just shove away.
with the rope getting snagged on my knee, i eliminated it by clipping in short, no runner, and keep the rope in the crack away from me. putting the cams slightly further back.....
wouldn't falling onto a runner to the 'pusher' piece potentially shock load it?
on a side note: i was pushing cams, left one started pushing the next (crux time), fell and the lower cam fell out, since the lobe got caught on the trigger wire.
make sure those pieces are bomber, when you space em' 30 feet apart!!!
cheers,
patrick
edit: russ i wanna try one of those runners!!!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
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Suhweeeet, Russ! I'll keep ya posted and I'll bring beers anyway!!! Probably a couple of weekends away, due to work stuff.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
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Randy, if you want to go make an attempt on a dick-wrenching megaclassic hard OW in Josh, let me know. I'm trying to project the thing and need any willing partner(s).
I've got any Fri-Sun free. Bring some old 4.5 camalots or new purples and get ready to get inverted.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Feb 19, 2009 - 03:53pm PT
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I'm down for that! Shoot me an email and let's figure something out!
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 19, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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I push. And I clip the rope through the piece. But keep it on a tether, usually a 24" or 36" runner, so I don't have to deal with the weight of the rope with each "push." I use a 36" if I'm planning on it, otherwise, whatever I have on hand. The rope doesn't go up to the piece and back down; it's basically just hanging down from my harness, but clipped through the runner from the top piece, and I always make sure to keep a little slack in the runner. It's no more of a cluster than daisying to the piece, and 1) it's ready to go if I want to just move past it, and 2) the rope is there to take some of the shock if I happen to fall (not that that would happen).
As far as how "Rob Halford" pushing cams is, I dunno. It can be pretty exciting when you're way above your last piece, feeling kinda shaky, and you grab that trigger for the next move. All the "security" of the top-rope is instantly replaced by an entirely different sort of feeling .
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 19, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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It's no more of a cluster than daisying to the piece,
Actually it is. I put the knot of the rope on my hip on the outside of the crack, and the Pusher™ is on the other hip, inside the crack.
If it is to the rope, I'd be continuously pulling the lead rope and attachment across my body and into the crack while pushing.
diagram to follow:
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