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apogee
climber
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Jan 16, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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"We'll see what your newly elected and appointed wise men come up with as a solution to this very complex problem."
Yep, it is a very complex problem, with no easy answers, and there is sure to be NIMBY-ism involved. One thing for sure: the coming administration will be chastised to maximum capacity by the Repugnican Right no matter what the solution. Of course, the ultimate fact and irony will be lost: a Repugnican administration created this sh*thole of a situation in the first place.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 21, 2009 - 12:21am PT
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So Obama wants to hold these ass-holes without trials?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 21, 2009 - 12:29am PT
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Did you read the article chaz?
That isn't the direction that will be taken.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jan 21, 2009 - 12:35am PT
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Mimi, a bunch of us, liberal, union dues paying pinko, public school teachers, were discussing this topic at lunch today, and friday. I don't think there are a lot of good solutions, we will see. But, closing Gitmo does seem like an appropriate starting point...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 21, 2009 - 12:43am PT
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A Gordian knot, where Obama has taken the only solution.
It's unlikely any of the detainees would ever have been successfully prosecuted. Your supreme court didn't seem inclined to support the tribunal system, and it had little international credibility. And torture is a pretty good get out of jail card, at least under U.S. justice.
It didn't help that one of the first prosecutions has been of Omar Khadr, who was 15 (!) when caught. A nasty character from a nasty family, and Canadian too. But holding a 15 year old in prison for seven years, then prosecuting him?
The problem then is simply what to do with them, and whether any apologies or reparations are owed. It's pretty clear that many weren't terrorists or al Qaeda or Taliban in any real sense.
My guess is that any who were really nasty - that is, who the U.S. wanted to detain indefinitely - were long ago moved out of the jurisdiction of U.S. courts.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jan 21, 2009 - 12:56am PT
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Close GITMO and move them all to Camp 4.
Curt
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 21, 2009 - 10:14am PT
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Maybe he's going to go back to the way ununiformed combatants were always dealt with before?
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Bamm_Bamm
Social climber
I'm lost, Please help me!!!
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Jan 21, 2009 - 10:42am PT
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Or maybe Dingus just forgot who started this thread.
So true, so true.
The dilusional left falls flat on their face once again.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2009 - 10:48am PT
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Skip I am not a conservative or a liberal (in the traditional sense the words are used).
And... I have been to Gitmo. There are some nice beaches on the base. Gets pretty damn hot in the summer though.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 21, 2009 - 11:33am PT
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"And if you close GTMO then what do you do with them? What do you with someone who openly states that he has a avowed mission to destroy you and/or your country."
Here's what you do.
Review each case, let the non-offenders, marginal offenders, or offenders which cannot be prosecuted for lack of evidence go. Send them home. It is ridiculous that only after being dragged kicking and screaming into court that the US government, under a court order, granted these chaps habeas corpus after so many years.
And many were subjected to torture. Innocent people, tortured. Nice. Blame Bush for that one.
The rest should be tried in a court of law. Of course, thanks to their TORTURE, much of the evidence will be thrown out, so convictions might be difficult if not impossible for many of the worst offenders. Blame Bush for that one too.
And yes, shut it down and send any convicted combatants elsewhere. It has become a great recruiting tool for terrorists and has turned our friends against us.
It won't be easy but the Bush administration illegally and unwisely painted us into this corner.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 21, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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"You ever serve in the armed forces skip?"
President Obama and I served in the same branch.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jan 21, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
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DMT, get a load of this, those damn conservative chicken hawks at CNN are using "Gitmo" too.
When you're done laughing, maybe you'll consider that "Gitmo" has become a common abbreviation used by pretty much everyone, sorry if that kills your buzz.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 21, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
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" In his case, the more fan fare, the better as he needs something to appease the hungry mob faction of his supporters who expect him to "avenge" the "sins" of his predecessor."
Lois - you don't do cynicism well.....
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 21, 2009 - 02:09pm PT
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"Yes, I agree, but it will be a symbolic gesture only. "
Symbolism can be a powerful thing, Lois. Very powerful. That facility has paid a huge dividend as a recruitment tool for Al Qaeda types largely because of its symbolism.
"GITMO is a prison and some of these turkeys need imprisonment"
The problem is that Bush Admin has done a very lax job of sorting out the hard core terrorist types from those who didn't do anything. This is one of the consequences of shunning judicial oversight.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 21, 2009 - 02:30pm PT
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"Nope I will laugh robustly at every never-served who uses that term, CNN or Fox".
So DingDong do you also express your ridicule for Bush Jr, Cheney, Rumsfeld and
Rice, just to name a few?
Any of them actually serve sufficiently to use the term Gitmo?
I served my country and was disabled overseas can I use the term?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jan 21, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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My answers: Bush-yes (he was commander in chief), Cheney-no, Dumsfeld-maybe, Rice-no, me-no, unless it is used to me first by a qualified user and I merely respond in kind, Philo-yes, of course, DMT-????
DMT--can never-evers come up with our own abbreviations, such as "Gbay"? And what about people who served in the military but never overseas or in harms way. Does that include people who served at "Gbay" itself--I don't think they are in danger of being overrun but Cubans (maybe I'm wrong about that--I just saq Few Good Men on TV and wasn't really paying attention). Inquiring minds want to know.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 21, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Problem with Gitmo was it was an attempt to skirt both international and US law by finding an inbetween zone where neither could be firmly held to apply.
It's fundamentally dishonest and corrupt, like thinking you are faithful to your wife by having anal gay sex. (honey, I have never even touched another woman!)
Invading a country and calling anyone resisting without a uniform an "illegal Conbatant" is silly.
LEB, as we've proved over and over, directly to you, many, many of those prisoners were sold down the river for ransom or to get rid of tribal enemies.
We screwed up with Gitmo and almost no-one there is guilty of any actual crime against the US (and if they are, what crimes are we guilty of for invading Iraq without cause?)
Best to try the ones whom we have real evidence against. apologize to the rest, and close the camp.
It does us infinitely more harm than good.
Peace
Karl
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 21, 2009 - 03:56pm PT
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What's Obama going to do with the people who are being held at Gitmo?
Ready! Fire! Aim!
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