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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:22pm PT
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One should note that there's no probelm right now with Fatah on the west bank.
there are those that dream of unringing the bell of history.
Foolish?
th
Hamas' charter proclaims itself as jihadist's and mass murderers in its preamble.
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
18 August 1988
In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah
"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
Not a whole lot of room for negotiation there.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:30pm PT
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Skip, What do you say about Israel's policy of bulldozing homes of family members of known terrorist?
Not the terrorist homes, but their parents, their cousins, their brothers and sisters.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
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No problem on the West Bank TGT, really. Where do you get your news from Fattrad?
Just look up Hebron for one example.
And Skipper be careful getting into a battle of wits your ammo consists of spit balls.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:36pm PT
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More from the charter.
The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement:
Article Eight:
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:39pm PT
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I think that it is terrible that our government can bulldoze homes for shopping malls.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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"Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes. "
Doesn't Christianity have a similar verse?
"Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it." Luke 17:33
Maybe Jesus was a Jihadist. He appears to want people to die for him.
"The one who finds his life will lose it, and the one who loses his life because of me ( Jesus) will find it." Matt 10:39
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
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Looks like some small setbacks... but I think we're really close to reconciling differences here!
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
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Skip, it is such a different case. Can you not see this? The Israelis are going beyond an eye for an eye. Do you not understand how this can create even more angst and thus more support for the terrorist? Justice should be fair.
Would you consider it fair if your father decided he had had enough of our government and attacked it with bombs, and our government decided to bulldoze your house because of what your father did? How can you support that and claim it is similar to bulldozing a house to make way for a mall? It is not similar. It is revenge.
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:55pm PT
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From article thirteen of the charter.
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:
"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:57pm PT
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Unless you are talking about the Mormon concept of "blood atonement" for just one example Skipt.
Don't you guys, who think I am as naive as Lois, ever read my climbing posts?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
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Skip, I know that about Christian Martyrdom. I was just pointing out that there are similar verses in both religions. For TGT to use it to mean that their religion or charter condones killing is ignorant.
Plus the verse is not about actually being a martyr. It is about giving up ones ego/carnal mind by choosing to put on the mind of Christ. Letting the ego die and putting on the mind of Christ is the way to eternal salvation.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:04pm PT
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"Going beyond the "eye for an eye."
What does this even mean?
Let me make my point clear to you.
When it comes to protecting the innocent people of Israel it is their Government's responsibility to, "Git er done."
Beyond an "eye for an eye."
What a pants load.'
............
No wonder people dont talk respectfully to you.
Bulldozing family members homes does go beyond an eye for an eye. So I suppose that you would be okay with the American government bulldozing your house if one of your family members turned to terrorism. Good to know.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:09pm PT
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This sorta' blatantly endorses killing,
It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. Palestine contains Islamic holy sites. In it there is al- Aqsa Mosque which is bound to the great Mosque in Mecca in an inseparable bond as long as heaven and earth speak of Isra` (Mohammed's midnight journey to the seven heavens) and Mi'raj (Mohammed's ascension to the seven heavens from Jerusalem).
"The bond of one day for the sake of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it. The place of one's whip in Paradise is far better than the world and whatever there is on it. A worshipper's going and coming in the service of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it." (As related by al-Bukhari, Moslem, al-Tarmdhi and Ibn Maja).
"I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Doesn't it?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:12pm PT
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Yes TGT, it does. So I guess we should bomb the sh#t out of them.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:13pm PT
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You are responsible if you do nothing to stop it. You reap what you sow. That is karma baby. Suck it up. I didn't make the rules.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:15pm PT
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Ack.. Jello was right. It is a cesspool. Wrestle with pigs.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:19pm PT
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Skip, I don't condone doing nothing. I just think that what is done should be done with wisdom. Bulldozing innocents homes is not wisdom. If you can not see this, then there is nothing left for us to discuss. We are polls apart.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:28pm PT
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How is wanting Israel to stop bulldozing the homes of family members of terrorist giving terrorist a pass? I don't give them a pass. Give them a fair trial and put them in jail.
Bulldozing the homes of family members doesn't stop terrorism.
It just makes more people angry which leads to more terrorism.
If your kid kills someone, should you also be killed?
How is that not going beyond an eye for an eye?
Do you not see this?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:30pm PT
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It is a fraud. It is not a war. It is a police action. The military can't stop it. Good policework and good foreign policy is the only way to put a dent in it.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 27, 2008 - 10:31pm PT
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No one here is giving the terrorists a pass Skipt. Some of us are just not giving Israelli terrorism a pass either. The 2000 + "rocket" attacks have been virtually ineffective landing harmlessly. But what would you do under occupation? Roll over and take one? What would brave and righteous Skipt do to fight for his homeland and independence?
To fight to feed and defend your children? Against Uzis, Apaches, F16s, what would you use from your back yard to resist?
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