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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Dec 19, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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"aerobic is the limit of climbing anyway, not steepness."
 Possibly the true-est line on the taco, even if it's about skiing.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Dec 19, 2008 - 10:44am PT
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Reminds me of a funny story. First year I moved back to WY from CA and being rather green to the backcountry ski scene, I hooked up with a couple WY natives for a ski trip to Clouds PK. One guy was the high school X-C ski coach and experienced backcounty skier and the guy was one of his ex-star X-C skiers on the team and exp. backcountry skier.
I had just learned to X-C the previous year in N.Cal working up in Bear Valley. I had finally became somewhat proficient at both skating and classic by the end of the ski season.
I worked at a mtneering shop and had bought 2 sets of skis with my employee discount: a pair of tele skis and X-C touring skis. Now, on my first major winter camping and tele skiing trip, I figured I would effortlessly ski in on the touring skis and strap the tele skis onto my pack for the backcountry skiing on Cloud Pk.
When I showed up for the trip with ALL my gear, my two companions looked at me in disbelief. Knowing better than them of course, I went ahead with my plan knowing that I would be gliding by them on my 210 double-cambered missiles and they'd be really impressed by this Cali-transplant's ingenuity and resourcefulness!
As we started out on the 15-mile r/t expedition, loaded with my 50lb. pack and extra set of skis (and 5 lb. summer sausage, that's another story for another time), I noticed there was NO glide whatsover when I tried to kick! WTF is going on here?!?!? As my two buddies pulled away from me on their WAXED tele skis at a steady pace, I soon found myself skiing alone and demoralized.
The reality of my decision soon was apparent: There's apparently no such thing as kick-n-gliding with 50lbs. and an extra set of skis on your back!
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Eggstele
Trad climber
Kings Beach, Lake Tahoe
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Dec 19, 2008 - 11:01am PT
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Hi Bluering,
Not sue if anyone recommended this as I did not read all posts.
I have been doing a lot of touring the past several years, including a continuous ski around Lake tahoe. I have found the ultimate x-country set up to be metal edged scaled skis with three pin binding and lightweight plastic boots such as garmont excursion or Black diamond T3. It is more than you need most of the time, but for the few moments you want to make turns, it is worth having. This system also provides much more control and float even when just tooling around in the flats
I have not got a pair yet, but the Karhu Guide is a scaled fat ski with metal edges. I tried out a pair one day and it is an amazing ski.
This set up is a bit of an investment $400-$700, depending on if you find a deal or not, but is well worth it, especially if you like to go down hills and make a few turns every now and again.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 19, 2008 - 11:04am PT
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Nice Doug, I will have to check out the Chugach's.
Regarding boots, again depends on what you are into. I like the lower profile of the Salomon BC boots/bindings or the other boots that fit a BCNNN binding. Unlike the three pin, these do not overhang the ski, thus having less resistance in the snow, not scraping skier set tracks etc. So if covering miles, and really learning to stride ie. leaning forward, not just shuffling along, interests you try the sleeker boot setup. Once you learn you will turn in that gear just fine. If learning to turn is your emphasis and you might get into steeper stuff, go with the three pins.
Wow, it blew and snowed hard all night, wild wind formations and cornices out the window! Don't delay, get your gear and get out there!
ps. if coming to N. Tahoe/Truckee, Pacos in Truckee rents the setups I am describing.
Peter
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 11:06am PT
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Thanks for all the advice, fellow Tacoheads.
I do appreciate it.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 19, 2008 - 11:37am PT
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Tar: "Funny thing is, old school’s 1970s style cross-country ski touring seems to be fully cobwebbed these days. Most people either skate ski or teli and don’t have a clue that there’s a whole margin in between."
Bonus reply.
I learned to Telemark in soccer shoes and pins. After fifteen years out of skiing, I've been trying to get back the past year, and the market in Cali appears to be almost perfectly divided into "hipper-than-thou" ATers on the one hand and skaters on the other.
Bluering-- I'm exactly where you are, trying to get a set-up that will let me thrash around on trails with an occasional run for a season or two. I guess I'll find out if my knees can still take the Teles.
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stnmn
climber
intransit
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Dec 19, 2008 - 11:56am PT
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Randonee is dumb and noone should do it because it's ghey and nowhere near as hip as telemark and "nordic". Please do not go AT skiing and stay with skate skiing on metal edges. It's way more fun. Fresh tracks are just overrated and you can hurt yourself out there.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Dec 19, 2008 - 12:07pm PT
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"At the same time my favorite leather boots gave out and I was tired of wet feet, so I caved into a pair of Garmont Excursions."
I have these too and really enjoy them. Scored and paid $25 bucks for them - never worn and still had the stickers on them. :)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 12:50pm PT
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"So if covering miles, and really learning to stride ie. leaning forward, not just shuffling along, interests you try the sleeker boot setup." -Maysho.
For pure touring, which for some may sound like a misnomer (and rightly so due to local terrain considerations requiring plenty of real turning on descents), I think Mayfield has it here. The plastic versus leather/lightweight thing is generally, though not absolutely, more about turning. If you want to tour to get to an area to go make turns, and you’re carrying a pack full of avi gear and hut supplies, forget leather. But if you’re trying to get some aerobic fitness out on backcountry trails, plastic can be a bit much. I have lightweight plastic; but I don’t use it for my standard aerobically oriented tours.
There are obviously shades here and something like an Excursion or a T3 isn’t necessarily overkill for touring as it does add stability and ensure more confidence coming down even if all you’re doing is wedging down narrow trails. My wife uses a T3 with the Thermo fit liner for her touring set up, because it gives her much more confidence and control coming down and the liner has accommodated a few adjustments for her myriad foot issues. But she tends to shuffle going uphill, while I’m nearly running (gliding) in my lighter footwear. (she’s actually faster in snowshoes, because she can flat out run in them for up to two hours straight)
For backcountry touring, I'd probably rather see a beginner be a bit over geared, because control is a safety consideration.
Nevertheless, Colorado’s snowpack is pretty treacherous. 95% of my tours I do alone and I’m absolutely respectful of staying off of (and out from underneath) avalanche prone terrain, so I’m just not engaging slopes were I am doing much turning at all. Every weekend of every winter for the last 10 years I’ve been out on tours requiring anywhere from 2 to 7 hours to complete. Most all of this is in the trees, I rarely stop, am consistently breathing hard and at my turnaround point, I’ll poke out into the wind up into a high cirque, snap a couple pictures, point ‘em back the other way and make like four gentle turns down into the woods and reengage the narrow trails.
This is a terrain & aerobic consideration which prompts a fairly narrowly restricted old-school cross-country touring gear requirement. So I choose lighter footwear with an overboot/supergaiter for warmth.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 19, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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Tar: "Every weekend of every winner for the last 10 years I’ve been out on tours requiring anywhere from 2 to 7 hours to complete. Most all of this is in the trees, I rarely stop, am consistently breathing hard and at my turnaround point, I’ll poke out into the wind up into a high cirque, snap a couple pictures, point ‘em back the other way and make like four gentle turns down into the woods and reengage the narrow trails."
Exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, I can't get boots to fit my EE forefoot/D heel feet. I might have to ramp up to serious plastic just to get something that can be reshaped. Very frustrating.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 01:29pm PT
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 19, 2008 - 01:38pm PT
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Hey DR, if you're still reading this thread, have you seen Dan Asay lately? I was going to bite the bullet and ask him to make me a pair of boots. But the number I have for him seems to be loaded with unanswered messages.
Maybe his xmas came early . . ..
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Dec 19, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
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Tarbuster...a few more posts like yours and I'm going to print them off and compile them into the "Climber's guide to X-C skiing!!!" hahaha!
I love all the pinheads/barheads that have come out of the woodwork on this thread. This is seriously cutting into work productiviy though.
For me, my Fischer E99's touring ski (skinny, light, and w/metal edge) have been my go to ski for logging in miles in the backcountry. I went with the 3N boot and binding system (steel bar in the toe). My boots were a leather foot w/upper plastic cuff for support. When I wanted to make tele turns, I jumped onto my Fischer GTS tele with the same binding, sans cables, and hit the lifts.
The E99's were terrible for teleturning on this system though, groome or backcounty. The GTS's were fun on groomed slopes or soft powder, but I missed cables when you hit the wind packed slab/soft snow mix. In the end, I got pretty good skiing steep stuff on the GTS's without the cables. It definitely forced you to USE good technique.
A few years ago I rented some tele skis and T-1's, cables and was blown away how easy it was...almost felt like I was cheating, but I had a blast. I almost tempted the double-diamonds at Steamboat with this set-up, but lack of conditioning ultimately made that decision for me. If I had the dough, I'd probably trade up for a set-up like that for the lifts.
Lastly, anyone here embrace the "Chevron" pattern for waxing your touring skis? Works great for those varying conditions throughout the day...cheers!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 02:45pm PT
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Dec 19, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
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Sweet photos!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 03:41pm PT
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You're killing me, Roy, with these pics...in a good way.
I took a half-day off work today, I'm heading out to look at skis in a bit (after another beer)
The Mountain View REI doesn't carry xc/telemark stuff so I'm heading to Saratoga. There's an Any Mountain nearby too but REI, I got that $150 head start on the pricetag, ya know?
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 19, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
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I can vouch for the Berkeley REI ski sales crew, I clinic them myself! They probably have the best selection and the most knowledge.
Peter
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
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Well, Peter, I'm down the street from Saratoga. The dude at MV said only Saratoga and Berkeley REI's carry full ski dept's in the Bay Area so hopefully the Saratoga store is comparable to the Berkeley one.
Thanks!
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Dec 19, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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Another vote for the Berkeley REI. plus Chipotle is next door.
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