Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2008 - 10:23pm PT
|
"Obama's hero is Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was a pragmatic Republican."
I thought Lincoln was a Whig (at least that was his party of choice, it kinda went plunk)
In any case, times have changed and Democrats aren't the party of slavery anymore.
Regardless of all that, I don't see anyone yet feeling Obama has sprung a surprise left wing slant on anything yet.
Peace
Karl
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2008 - 10:47pm PT
|
No worries Skip. Have a great weekend.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2008 - 10:57pm PT
|
Need I remind mr Bables that the dems were the only party with a terrorist wing, ( the KKK) and that Lincoln broke early with the Whigs over their inability to take a principled stand on slavery and was a founder of the Republican party.
Now, to the buisiness at hand:
Rahm is dirty and wil go down over this or the extended coverup will bring down Obama a la Nixon.
Axelrod is also dirty but is wiley enough to possibly pull of his political survival. Afterall he is a practiced liar with his civilian income derived from an add agency that specializes in fake public intrest add campaigns. you know. The pleading television adds for the concerned citizens that really do want a power plant or dump in their neighborhood. That's his co. that produced those adds.
Obama has always sucked up to the most politicaly advantagious audience.
Started his campaign in Ayer's living room to establish his bonafides with a moneyed counterculture elete to get started.
Sucked up to the reverend Wright to get street cred.
Crawled in bed with the Dally machine to build power.
Abandoned them all when they were no longer useful.
Lie down with dogs,
Get up with fleas.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 01:08am PT
|
Got whiff of evidence for any of that TGT?
Because evidence to the contrary is already been published.
The Republican Party of Lincoln's time has little to no resemblance to the current version and anyone who studies these things knows that. The Democrats were the party of slavery but became the party of civil rights quite obviously.
PEace
Karl
|
|
rich sims
Trad climber
co
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 01:54am PT
|
It only took seven posts to have the racist card thrown in.
Gezz Sure they exist in every color and ism but was I a racist when I yelled out my back window to put the Fking trash back in his truck.
I was reading kicked back with a cool afternoon breeze. I heard loud noises in my back yard. I get up and some guy is unloading a truck load of trash. I run out and stop him from driving off. I tell him to put his trash back in his truck. He gets out and tells me I am a racist because he has a white girl friend. That word is used with a very wide brush to wide. The word is too often used by someone who is offended with another’s beliefs or comments. Too many folks on the far side of right or left side should take off their tin foil hats and let’s see what Obama’s first 100 days looks like. He is not as far left as the FL wanted and was never going to be far right.
Rad ER is closer than JT let me know
|
|
corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 06:52am PT
|
If there is such a thing as Karma what job would the soon to be Ex-governor of Illinois take?
|
|
Jim E
climber
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 10:05am PT
|
So when a property is purchased or owned by a convicted felon that property should no longer be bought or sold?
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 10:47am PT
|
Skipt wrote
"Give me a break Karl, this is just too easy..... You know there is more. Do you really need ME to go through this for you? "
Skip, it's not worth it for you to bring yourself down to this level. If I'm looking for evidence that Bush lied to go to war in Iraq, I wouldn't be citing his cocaine use in college.
I was asking TGT if he had evidence to tie Obama to some abuse in the senate seat scandal. The EVIDENCE is that the governor is RECORDED cursing Obama's team for refusing any kind of bribe or incentive. There is no evidence of impropriety on their part.
For you to claim otherwise based on campaign rhetoric that even McCain hadn't taken seriously makes you a tool. This is now and to put down the guy who will lead us based on pretty distant past charges that didn't stick then, nor during the campaign is to ignore the issue.
Better hope nobody judges you by those standards.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Jim E
climber
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
|
"As Hillary Clinton said, "Political Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism.""
You might want to check that.
|
|
fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
|
I'm with you all the way Skip. Many of us knew that dirt would eventually surface on Obama (even with the press on his side). You just can't have SO MANY friends and associates throughout your life who are scumbags, without wallowing in the scum yourself.
|
|
corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:15pm PT
|
Would it be safe to bet that Hillary's Senate seat is also being
sold in New York by the new Gov. David A. Paterson?
The NY media has noticed an unusual change in tone of political rhetoric since the Illinois scandal broke which, of course,
makes them suspicious that the same quid pro quo is going on in the empire state. New York politics is just a shade less incestuous
than Illinois but still rife with scandal.
So do you think her seat being sold ?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/nyregion/12cuomokennedy.html?em
|
|
andanother
climber
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
|
The next four years are going to be fun, and I hope this thread is the beginning of a LOOOOOOONG line of similar discussions. You pathetic right wingers just don't know when to quit, do you?
You were grasping at straws (and failing) 3 years ago. Now, your blind allegiance to hatred is making your true colors known.
The biggest gem in this thread is the "evidence" that skipt presented above.
Skip, simply typing the words doesn't automatically make them true. Is english not your first language? If you don't know what a word means, then you shouldn't use it.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
|
No worries skip. I sympathize from 8 years of having scum Bush in the white house that it hurts to have "the other guy" in charge.
What I'm saying is that so far, there is no evidence of current wrongdoing. You and I both know that NOBODY has or could be elected president that has been some kind of permanent eagle scout. If in fact, those people exist or could navigate our political system with some kind of magical support.
I'm just saying, wait until you have at least a current tidbit of dirt before frothing at the mouth. Trust me. 4-8 years is a long time. You'll have your chance.
Taking Obama to task for this scandal is unjustified at this point and just tarnishes your reputation for good judgement. Doesn't mean something bad isn't there somewhere. Politics, after all, are all about folks giving in one area to get support in another. It happens in congress every day. There is a line that can't legally be crossed though and so far, not a hint that Obama crossed it.
You can continue to try to blame Obama for things you read about that happen in some past time, but it will serve you not and not the country either. I hope we're both ready to take Obama to task when he really slips up, and by the past of our previous presidents, he certainly will. It's not a job you can do perfect.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
|
I haven't read all of this thread, but here is my take on the man.
I was a Hillary Clinton supporter as I thinks she has what it takes to be a very good president. But that is not going to happen.
I always thought that Obama came across as a used car salesman turned Baptist preacher.
But he is the man now and a million miles ahead of that idiot that is in office.
I do not see him as being humble, but as in journalism and acting (two things I do know something about) you need a thick skin in politics, and a bit of an ego, or self-belief or confidence - call it what you want.
For the sake of the US, the world and my shares, I sure as hope he can pick things up. He will be POTUS in a little over a month, let's hope he is a good one. That f*cking clown and his puppet masters that are in there right now is (are) an easy (very easy) act to follow.
I do not trust any politician.
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
|
this at least confirms that Obama is not beyond sharing in the negative characteristics that separate politicians from enlightened harbingers of change.
I highly doubt that Obama actually did anything "wrong" in this situation with the governor but the fact that he sits so close to the outer perimeter of the scandal definitely shows that his associations have been largely less than savory characters. Does that make him worse than any other politician? Nope, sadly that is what we ought to expect, or that is what we have been conditioned to expect...
I wasnt a Bush supporter (for the same reasons I am not an Obama supporter) but I feel that an elected official should be suffered to prove themselves. Shrieking for impeachment is a most disreputable form of buyer's remorse...which we have seen plenty of in the past 8 years...politicians will be crooked and when supporting any politician the citizenry are naive at best to think that they can separate the corruption from the truth.
It is what it is.
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
|
Truism: to succeed in Chicago politics you must be in tight with the machine. Anyone who believes that Obama moved through that fetid swamp without conforming to the requirements of the political machine is devoid of common sense or is trying to con us.
Now, that said, I don't believe the "dirt" attached to Obama will be allowed to drag him down unless he and his crew mismanage this mess so badly that the media and the government investigators find themselves having no choice.
Lots of Presidents have had a foul, political history to one degree or another if examined closely. Usually, it wasn't examined too closely: too many bones in too many closets on all sides for that.
Obama's history does not necessarily determine his success as President of the U.S. Hypothetically, Al Capone might have been a successful President; Capone had many of the qualities a successful President sometimes needs.
For those trying to shift the debate to Bush et. al., it's a waste of time since it denotes a distinct anxiety on their parts. Oh, lets shift the debate away from this uncomfortable issue or the old saw " Heh, he did it too and worse."
I didn't believe the battle would begin this soon, but what the hell, the fun rolls in early; get to the barricades.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2008 - 04:34pm PT
|
There's some truth in what you say Fatty but face it MLK was not GOP.
But hey, you guys have me convinced. Should we begin impeachment hearings in advance for Obama? Does it have to be for crimes he committed in office or does being a Chicago politician suffice?
Off with his head!
Peace
Karl
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2008 - 05:12pm PT
|
Locker,
Good you didn't meet us yesterday. The weather sucked.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Dec 14, 2008 - 12:55am PT
|
Woody, I do not know if your comment about trying to shift the focus or blame to Bush refers to my comment, but IMO history will show quite clearly that Bush, Cheney and Co were BAD for this country, and the world in general.
I couldn't care less about Obama. But for all of our sakes, let's hope he makes a good POTUS.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!