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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:05am PT
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Here's the thing. Coming into this election, all was not neutral. Bush had got us into two wars that aren't going well, and the economy is wrecked. He assumed extreme powers and dragged our nation down into torture, no h corpus, and obstructed justice.
So some folk have had it and advocating the Election of another GOP administration was, if anything, far more extreme than advocating returning Richard Nixon to office after he resigned. (using Nixon to avoid Nazi or Stalin analogies that would offend people)
I doubt such negativity would have been present following the Bush 1 or Reagan administrations even from folks who didn't agree with their policies.
PEace
Karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:29am PT
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"The left has lost all manner of perspective and condones this sort of behavior - even cheers it on."
Who is this left? I have never condoned this behavior. Jaybro hasn't. Many others here have not condoned this behavior. Lois, this is more black and white thinking. You have painted yourself as some sort of saint while painting others as terrible. We have seen you many times be snide, arrogant and vain. You are no saint. Veiled civility is not civility. You have even admitted to liking to bait people to watch them react. How civil is that? If you don't like the reactions, then stop baiting people.
Those with left leaning ideologies are still people. Not that different from those on the right. If you haven't seen the vile things said by the right, then you are blind.
Did you ever call Fatty on his use of "whirled peas"?. Nope.. you laughed at it and agreed. So please stop trying to paint your self as some sort of innocent. It is just not true.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:34am PT
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And how soon the Palin rallies are forgotten.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:38am PT
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"And how soon the Palin rallies are forgotten."
The Palin rallies were ugly. The McCain rallies were uglier, until he finally started telling people to tone it down. Palin just egged them on.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:43am PT
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Lois, you paint your self as a saint when you claim to have never said anything bad. You would have to be a saint to have achieved this. Reread your earlier posts about you being civil and not doing anything to offend. You say "all I did" .. this is not true. And I do fully understand how rare saints are.
And please don't paint your baiting as somehow noble. Its not. You take too much glee in getting someone to behave ugly so you can act superior.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:58am PT
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LOL, okay Lois, I don't agree with what you say, but its cool.
Good night..
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Nov 15, 2008 - 09:06am PT
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Let's face it Lois, we're all a bunch of sh#t talkers here(few exceptions). In a live forum, you would get and probably deserve more respect than you do here. But this is the Taco and anarchy reigns, so put up or shut up. I thought you already knew that. I also don't think that it is necessarily a mob mentality that is attacking you as much as it is that you seem to be a source of entertainment around here. The entertainment being your inability to absorb the articulate voice of reason from Karl, John, et al.
Carry on, though.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 11:18am PT
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What I think is funny is that Lois's big complaint about "liberals" for the past few years was about their "Whining"
Now that she's not on the winning team anymore, she sounds a lot whinier.
Just sayin'
A lot of preemptive whining going on for about a guy who is months from even being able to do anything.
My advice, Pace yourself. 4-8 years is a long time and you might find your tolerance is tested before it's over
Peace
Karl
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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"Tolerance for other viewpoints"
There is a generally agreed-upon term for that.....liberal.
I find it ironic that someone who ties themselves to the party of intolerance: against allowing OTHERS to do things, have things, participate in things. The party that finds itself home to anti-blacks, anti-women, anti-poor, anti-non american, anti-catholic, anti-jew, and pretty much all the other non-tolerant and hate groups in this country.
I also found it ironic that McCain, who I think is a fundamentally decent guy, found himself in a position where he was depending upon the racist vote turning out, which I'm sure disgusted him. I'm sure he finds much in common with the "good ole boys" in the south who supported him so well, because they no longer can support their cause through a good sunday lynching. (actually, I'm sure he doesn't) He just has to hold his nose while he collects their vote.
EVERY advance of any group in this country has been by class warfare with the conservative camp. It wasn't the liberals who thought that Lois's "place" was pregnant, barefoot, in the kitchen.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise
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Nov 15, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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I'm all for whirled peas........
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Nov 15, 2008 - 01:34pm PT
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i wish i had the time to go through all the political threads i've posted to and tally the number and variety of names i've been called (hater, racist, idiot, etc.) by those who have differing views (dirtbag, dirtineye, etc.); i've always tried to attack others' ideas and positions without attacking the person(s)...i think that's what leb is getting at, and i'll risk further attacks by saying the personal attacks here on st seem to be primarily left to right rather than the other way around...of course, i'm biased
i think more shocking than the middle school experiment was the reaction by prop 8 protesters toward an elderly woman simply expressing her own beliefs: knocking her styrofoam cross out of her hand and stomping on it, shouting expletives at her, shouting her down everytime she or a local reporter tried to say something...ironic
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 01:40pm PT
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Obama supporters more likely to use cheat sticks while climbing...
if unobserved by peers... what?...can that be true?
Can't be. Liberals only keep cheat sticks near their beds in case of an emergency home inva....err no...for the midnight raid on the
poptarts stored out of reach on the top shelf!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Nov 15, 2008 - 01:47pm PT
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Man this thread is so funny. These poor victimized conservatives.
"I said gay marriage was bad and then people called me a bigot. Their intolerance of my intolerance hurt my feelings!"
"I make broad generalizations based on very focused information that I glean from news sources that reinforce what I want to believe and then people scoff are mean when I ignore evidence to the contrary! They are so intolerant!"
Also if you think that arguing on the internet brings out people's "true nature" you're nuts.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Nov 15, 2008 - 01:56pm PT
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high, i don't object to people attacking my ideas...in fact, i welcome it because i want to know what the other side is thinking...leb is referring to the personal attacks...when i try to explain my support for prop 8, i'm called a hater and a bigot...when i criticized obama, i was called a hater and a racist
only a few (karl baba, for one), actually try to debate the ideas...the rest simply hurl invectives
you know, obama AND biden both said they oppose same-sex marriage...want a recall?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:06pm PT
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They did yes. Because that is the politically expedient thing to do and they both resoundingly SUPPORT civil unions for gays that are the equivalent to marriage in any way. What's your point? That they are politicians?
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
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LEB - I understand you may have folks who want bad things to happen to you. And I know that many folks don't have as open a mind as they claim. This is kinda human nature. We all have biases towards the group we think we fit into.
I've interpreted what you have stated to the forum to be something like "to be liberal is to be hypocritical", or something to that nature. Can I have a moment to state that I see conservatism to mean war, and profit over people, and closed door deal-making, and generally otherwise shifty? There, we have both stated what we think.
But don't you see? Everyone has bias, there is no way around it. You opened and read this article I imagine from a paper or online information outlet (OIO), Yes? You chose to read that paper/OIO for what reason? I say, because in the past you may have been given information you found relevant and or useful in your life. Maybe you found that this paper/OIO provided the most accurate information according to your values and your needs. In the past it gave you what you needed, so you returned. Your conservative values took you back to a paper/OIO that feeds your needs to be part something, that which you identify with, and firmly believe. I go on to contend that the only reason you keep coming to this site is because it gives you something you need, and let's not forget that this is a choice you have made.
One more question: DO you think this article would have been published if mccain had won?
I see it for what it is, just chatter. It get's us nowhere closer to truth.
To be sure, I'm not clear how starting a thread with "Tolerance of Divergent Viewpoints" then pointing to a single school-girls "experiment" then pointing at the ST poster's and saying there is a clear parallel is going to win you votes, but I truely hope you find what you need.
Cheers
Post Edit: Wow! That's kinda strange.. You noted: "If there is one thing which has truly turned me off to the left and everything it represents it is Supertopo. I was never so pro GOP until I came here and see how you all think and act. If you all represent the left, I would not align with this group of people for all the money in the world."
So if we all went back to any of your initial posts here on the Taco, we'd all come away with "This person is kinda liberal/left?" I say your values were set long before you got here, you shouldn't try to pin that on the Taco.
Bad form
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Nov 15, 2008 - 03:02pm PT
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your arguments make sense, wes, if you are willing to permit ANY US citizen the right to marry...are you willing to allow three men to marry? how about four women marrying the same man? how about a brother and sister or uncle and niece or father and daughter?
if so, you've got a valid point...but only up to a point
again, denying rights based on race is against the law...denying rights based on behavior is another thing altogether...we deny convicted felons the right to vote...we deny child molesters who have served out their prison sentences the right to live and work wherever they please...we deny people old enough to vote and fight our wars the right to drink alcohol because of their behavior
personally, i have no objection to civil unions; i'll even vote for civil unions...but i believe MARRIAGE should remain between one man and one woman
so you excuse obama and biden "because they're politicians"? then why vote if you assume politicians will only and always say whatever it takes to get elected? if you thought that obama and biden would simply do the opposite of what they promised, why not vote for mccain?
finally, i believe the constitution was created, in part, to protect democracy...do you believe in democracy? if so, then consider this: the record in states that have put same-sex marriage on the ballot is 30-0 against...the people have spoken
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Nov 15, 2008 - 03:05pm PT
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Dissent is THE fundamental principle of freedom.
To the Republicans of today, dissent is un-American and socialist. Where did we go wrong???
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Nov 15, 2008 - 03:19pm PT
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bookwarm - Those are all very interesting takes... Can I ask? Is this something you "look forward" to? Or things that you've given thought to? Or where you think society will go if gay's/lesbians are given the constitutional right to marry?
Using fantasy to make an argument proves nothing but where your head is at.
Try again, please. This time using facts, it would make the argument stay here, in reality.
Post Edit: Just to be sure, most of your scenario's have been happening for year's in Utah and the South. LOOL
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jstan
climber
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Nov 15, 2008 - 03:22pm PT
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"Un-American" and " socialist" are just two sound bytes that can be thrown at anything you don't like or do not understand. They relieve one of the need to do any thinking. On the other side the two positive bytes "capitalism" and "free market" also can be thrown around without effort. Unfortunately the US no longer is truly capitalist nor does it have a free market.
Sadly, laziness has become a virtue in the US.
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