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jms
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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To shutupandclimb:
I'm listening, I'm listening!
Sounds fascinating.
Jason
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Witch Hunter
Social climber
Templeton, CA
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Chongo is a true climbing legend, the quintessential "Climbing Bum"
In the +/-30 years I've been climbing, Chongo has always been there, and I thank him. One of the most real, down to earth people I've ever met.
Today's climbing sell out will never have as much character as Chuck.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I don't know if you climb Jason, but there are climbers whose climbing skills and accomplishments are off the charts.
Although there are probably many climbers who are happy that the NYT is focused on characters such as Chongo, there are others of us who would like to see serious attention paid to the great athletes.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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I'd 2nd shutupandclimb's comments on the Gordon Ranch. One of the major differences between European and North American climbing is that the Euros built their climbing around clubs, each of which built a huge network of mountain huts. The huts gave--and still give--better access to difficult climbs and climbing areas, making it easier to wait out bad weather or retreat from some epic.
The US was much more laissez faire, but there was a tradition of local climbers opening facilities of one sort of another-- John Bouchard's cabin at Cannon, the Gordon Ranch at JTree, etc.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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And the Rock House in Springdale. There were the topos of routes drawn on the walls by the FA parties. And the tree-house out back was awesome.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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For those of us who have been around a long time, reading the article about Chongo brought back great memories. A time when the 14 day limit in J.Tree was rarely enforced, when I'd sometimes leave a tent in a good site knowing that when I'd return from L.A. with lots of good Mexican food to share we'd huddle around staying warm, happy in the knowledge that we looked out for each other. Although I didn't go to Todd's that much because I thought many people took advantage of his hospitality and showed a lot of dis-respect the way they would dirty it up and never help clean, you really did feel the comraderie. Chongo represents that era.
I have a bunch of slides of some early slack lining efforts in the park, and somehow I'm going to digitize them to share with folks. Chongo would get really tanked (on everything) and the face shows it. Lou Bartell, Yong Hee, Marco from Oregon, Greg and Tina, John with the van, Rondo, where are you guys? I'd like you guys to see some of these pictures. (Greg, didn't you give me some money to develop a set for you? Still owe you).
Jorge Gonzalez
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Victor Pereyra
climber
Cupertino, CA
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It was a very good article and accurate as far as I know.
Chongo is a character and deserves all the attention he can get (although he may not want any!).
As it was pointed out in another posting, although this was an exceptionally long article for the NYT some relevant items were left out.
I was surprised to see that the author apparently read the Quantum Mechanics book. That is hard. I have read it in English and in Spanish and I can attest to that I also wrote the preface). Although I have a PhD in Computer Sciences and Mathematics to this day I am not sure of the accuracy of the content and I would have loved to get some side opinions of a couple of real physicists. Maybe that is a different article to appear in the Science Section.
I was surprised not to see any mention of another colorful personage that cosigns the Quantum Mechanics book: José.
This is José Luis Pereyra, a world class climber and part of the speed climbing community with several of the early records, including some with Dean Potter, subject of an earlier article in the NYT. José has been dead for more than 5 years now but that does not mean he has to be forgotten, since he was a bonafide Physicist and Mathematician and lent great effort to the content and scientific accuracy of the book, besides translating it into Spanish, task he was performing up to his last day in the Sierra Nevada Oriental, Mexico.
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Witch Hunter
Social climber
Templeton, CA
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Tami, you miss the point, there aren't any "climbing bums" anymore, it's not allowed. I'd say Brian "Coiler" Kay was the last of the breed. And that ended when his dad died and he bought his house. Ironically, that's where Chongo went when he was booted from Yosemite.
Living "in" Yosemite, year end and year out, without working for The Man, is a thing of the past, and great climbing history. Chuck represents freedom, and freedom is a scarce commodity these days.
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morphus
Mountain climber
Angleland
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can someone post the text of the article?- i can no longer get it in the uk
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WBraun
climber
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Witch_Hunter
Chuck represents freedom?
You're out of your fuking mind.
The guy was in his very own created prison and was constantly putting the very same people down who he was leaching off and depending upon for his survival.
Coiler had to throw Chongo out of his place because he was leaching him so bad.
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morphus
Mountain climber
Angleland
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who are the real leaches?
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Yeah, right. Chongo is the "father of big wall climbing"........this is so much BS. Oh yeah. He is so brilliant and inspiring......
Right.......inspires so many people in his righteous life and ethics........give me a break.
The article was well written and very interesting. Very balanced I thought.
But the amount of weight and value given over to Chongo as an "inspiring icon" is just ridiculous. I agree with Werner. giving Chongo the thunbs up is just romantizing a life-style that does no one any good.
Jack
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Victor; It was great to be able to meet you at Jose's Memorial in the Valley back in '03. Michael Brick drank Chongo's coolaid then wrote the article to appeal to a large, diverse NYT audience. Many of Chuck's friends were not mentioned because the story had to be tightly focused on Brick's premise to keep the simpleton's interest. Chuck was careful to list the numerous people who contributed in the "Wall Manual" and to Jose in the various physics books. Had he written the article I can assure you he would have included Jose, it just wouldn't have been finished until 2021.
The climbers universe is a small one. I'm sure Ivo had to struggle to keep a straight face when he made the "God Father" comment. I'm sure it was intended to be an insiders joke, a prop to a friend, knowing that others would get a Chuckle out of it. To the audience that matters Jose is a campfire legend, an outstanding climber who chose his style of life even though he had the education to excel in an alternative value system.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Give them a light and they'll follow it, anywhere.....
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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I've known Chongo and his brothers for years and like him but have to agree with a lot of the others posters and question..."The father of Big-Wall Climbing?"...I guess they never heard of the likes of Salathe, Harding, Robbins,The list goes on and on...Cheers on getting in your own article Chuck, but isn't this a bit of over sensationalism?
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drljefe
climber
Calizona
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I think climbing is just plain boring to most people- thats why it was replaced by moto stuff in the X Games and that's why the mainstream media only focuses on accidents or freaks like 'ol Chongo.
I first met Chongo in Josh in the early 90's. When he and Tucker discovered I rolled my own cigs, and was generous, they became my bestest friends. Even when I moved sites they'd find me(or my tin of Drum). Eventually, I think they felt bad about bumming so many cigs and turned to cleaning out my firepit for butts. They kept that fuker clean!
I'll never forget the two of them arguing and nagging and calling their morning malt liquor "sports drink". They would down several 40's of "sports drink" before slack lining the Cyclops gap.
Chongo boasted to me about walking the Lost Arrow gap without a safety line, saying he was only the 2nd to do so. This was '92 when high lining wasn't popular like it is today. Truth? Or was I gullible in my youth(not like I believed him anyway). Not until I saw their names in guidebooks did I believe ANYTHING they said!
Definitely a legend, but not an ambassador!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Warbler and Watusi-- Most readers of the NYT don't know or care anything about climbing. Chongo can serve as the centerpiece of a story not because anyone would really believe that he is a Dulfer or a Bonatti or a Harding, but because he can give an audience of outsiders a way into climbing that will hold their attention.
Chongo also represents something that NYT readers do know, namely homelessness. And he provides a way of inviting NYT readers to empathize with homeless people, partly by placing one of them in a scenic, "natural" setting far, far away from the concrete world of addicted, mentally-ill people that many newspaper readers dodge on their way to and from work.
Yes, the prose is a bit purple and the John Muir allusions cheesy, but they are close to mandatory for "nature" writing, and this piece falls at least partly in that genre. As a "human interest" piece, it also pretty much has to have a narrative of moral uplift. These tales always offer a "triumph of the human spirit" ending, that's what readers (and thus editors) expect. But it's no more sentimental than the sort of writing that readers of ST seem to really like in the narratives they read about climbing.
Some of us will be frustrated that when climbing (non-Everest) finally gets into an important newspaper, it's a story about homeless communities and climbing bums, but at least it's a long piece in the NYT that isn't about f*#kin Everest.
Here's the full half of the glass: NYT did a long piece on climbing (long pieces are not common in the NYT), and we need more venues that mediate climbing, climbing literature, and mass audiences. My guess is that the editor had to go out on a fairly creaky limb for this piece. Maybe this can be the beginning of better coverage of climbing in major North American media. At the moment, the only alternative is to move to Austria or England.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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klk-
you make a good point, that the human interest element of the story was about the "homelessness" of Chongo, and not really his supposed "guru"-ness or "big wall fathering".
But in that sense, the article appears disingenuous, as the piece doesn't adequately describe the incredible kindness and trust by others that is integral to the "life of Chongo", such as the truly legendary Gordon Ranch, as Todd describes.
Not that Todd ever expected anything in return, but Todd's generosity to climbers for so many years was nothing less than spectacular, and was a key, not just to Chongo, but to so many living the dirtbag dream.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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deuce4 writes: " . . . [T]he piece doesn't adequately describe the incredible kindness and trust by others that is integral to the "life of Chongo", such as the truly legendary Gordon Ranch, as Todd describes."
I think that is a valid criticism-- as a historian, I am always hoping to see more contextualization in biographical narratives. But it is difficult, mainly because readers don't typically want it. Most readers expect and want to read about the triumph (or failure) of some individual. So I appreciate your critique (and hope the ditor and author do as well), but would add that we can apply it to virtually all writing on climbing.
Even if we consider only professional history, there's only a handful of studies that attempt a social history of any particular climbing community. Most are just heroic chronicles of who climbed what when.
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