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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:51am PT
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Lois, you often make a point of of saying that you do not try to persuade other people, but other people try to persuade you. Are you now trying to persuade Flashlight to vote for McCain?
Is it possible that you care who wins this race much more than Flashlight?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:56am PT
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"OK, one more try. Jody, if all the GOPs who normally vote GOP, stayed home because of sentiments like what you express, tell me what would be the net effect of that action? Who would win? So by staying home, which candidate do the GOPs help?"
They understand that, Lois. They understand that it might lead to Obama winning the next election, but they also understand that it will motivate the GOP to nominate different candidates in future elections.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:03am PT
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The allegedly intelligent woman that LEB wishes was at the top of the GOP ticket:
COURIC: Why isn't it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries; allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?
PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the—it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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I can understand when someone chokes and flubs one answer. But Palin flubbed every question in the interview.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:21am PT
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I found this list on a blog.
Partial List of Republican Women More Qualified to be President Than Sarah Palin
Senators: Lisa Murkowski, Alaska(?!?); Olympia Snowe, Maine; Susan Collins, Maine; Elizabeth Dole North Carolina; Kay Bailey Hutchison, Texas
Governors: Oline Walker, Utah; Linda Lingle, Hawaii, M. Jodi Rell, Connecticut
Members of the House: Ileana Ros-Lehtinen Florida; Deborah Pryce, Ohio; Barbara Cubin, Wyoming; Sue Myrick North Carolina; Jo Ann Emerson, Missouri; Kay Granger, Texas; Mary Bono, California; Heather Wilson , New Mexico; Judith Borg Biggert , Illinois; Shelley Moore Capito, West Virginia; Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee; Ginny Brown-Waite, Florida; Candice Miller, Michigan; Marilyn Musgrave, Colorado; Thelma Drake, Virginia; Virginia Foxx, North Carolina; Cathy McMorris Rodgers, West Virginia; Jean Schmidt, Ohio
Cabinet: Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State; Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor; Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education; Mary Peters, Secretary of Transportation; Susan Schwab, US Special Trade Representative
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:22am PT
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But in choosing Palin, McCain passed over a bevy of qualified Republican women, all of whom have built strong conservative records while maintaining some semblance of commitment to progress for women, and all of whom are the same kind of “moderates“ and “mavericks“ that John McCain billed himself to be. Here’s a rundown of five of the most notable and successful, and their qualifications for the job.
1. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson of Texas - Hutchinson began her public career as a the Texas State Treasurer back in the early 1990s. Elected to fill the vacancy created when former Senator Lloyd Bentson became Bill Clinton‘s treasury secretary, she‘s been reelected to the Senate three times, most recently in 2006. Ladies Home Journal called her one of the 30 most powerful women in the world. She’s served on the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee, the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, and is currently the ranking member of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. But even though she’s from reliably-Republican Texas, Hutchinson is a moderate, having backed a woman’s right to reproductive choice consistently.
2. Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine - A veteran of Washington politics, Maine Senator Olympia Snowe is one of the most popular in the entire country, boasting an approval rating that regularly tops the 80% mark. Time Magazine named her one of the “Top Ten Senators” in 2006, noting that her presence at the negotiating table was vital to the success of nearly every bill that passes through the house. She’s served two and a half terms in the Senate, though before that she served 8 terms in the House. When Republicans had control of the Senate, she was the Chairwoman of the Senate Small Business Committee (now she’s the ranking member). She also sits on the Senate Finance Committee, the Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, and was one of the first women to earn a seat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Snowe has established one of the most consistently pro-woman records in Washington, rivaling that of many Democrats. She’s a member of the “Republicans for Choice” group that advocates reproductive freedom, and backed the equal pay legislation that came through the Senate, despite her colleagues’ fillibuster of the motion to prevent it from ever coming to a floor vote.
3. Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska - If McCain had really wanted to go to Alaska, he could have picked Senator Lisa Murkowski, the daughter of former Senator and Governor Frank Murkowski, who served the same state for many years. Though Lisa has served just one full term, she was named the vice chair of the Indian Affairs Committee, and also served on the influential Foreign Relations Committee, and the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. Murkowski has a “mixed” rating when it comes to abortion issues, but has frequently supported equal pay and equal rights legislation that has passed through the Senate.
4. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice - Condoleezza Rice, for better or for worse, is an innovator. She was the first woman, the first African American, and the youngest ever to serve as the Provost of Stanford University. When George W. Bush tapped her to be the National Security Advisor, she made history again, becoming the first woman to hold that post. When he again called on her to fill the vacancy as Secretary of State caused by Colin Powell’s departure, she became the first African American woman to hold that post as well. If McCain had really been serious about loading his ticket with foreign policy credentials, or even national security credentials, Rice would have been the only logical choice.
5. Senator Susan Collins of Maine - Having served two full terms in the Senate, Susan Collins has proven herself to be a moderate Republican vote. Though she’s been fiscally conservative her entire career, she’s mirrored her colleague Olympia Snowe all along. She’s also a member of the Republicans for Choice group, and backed a floor vote on the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act (named for a woman who served 19 years at a tire plant and still made $6,000 per year less than the lowest-paid male employee). She’s incredibly accomplished, having chaired the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, of which she is now the ranking member. She also sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Now, compare these women to Sarah Palin, and ask yourself: was the selection of Palin a political move or a substantive one?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:29am PT
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"The GOP cannot chose "better" candidates because they are too hung up on certain issues. They have a litmus test and it is called the right to life. If a candidate - however qualified e.g. Guilliani - does not support the right to life - huge numbers of GOP voters will not support said person. It is very difficult, then, to get a "qualified" candidate. It is like saying, I absolutely won't get married unless I find a woman who is 5'4 and 3/4 inches, has hazel-green eyes with bluish overtones, has blondish hair which as a 10.5 % wave to it, wears precisely a 36C cup, has a tortoise shell cat which is 1/4 Siamese and practices constitutional law. She must also share my interest in baseball. What is the likelihood that this man remains a bachelor?"
and someone find it strange that not all GOP candidates is well liked in the US and the rest of the world?
This might be one of the largest reason that many people outside the US dislike the result of the American election and think many Americans are stupid. The real important issues and qualification of the candidates don't seem to matter for a lot of voters. It seems like EVERY prolife, christian person with "values" have million of default votes.
Palin seems to be an extremely bad candidate but this doesn't seem to matter at all.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2008 - 02:56am PT
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It is odd that you would characterize McCain's selection of Palin as a gamble....with which I agree.
However, what does that say about McCain's termperment and decision making process?
Do we want a person making huge critical decisions, throwing the dice all the time? That may be neccessary occasionally, but if used regularly, the odds catch up to you.
What was the "suspending the campaign", but another throw of the dice?
WE pay the consequences.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:02am PT
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So here we have the "we don't need to be liked talk".
I simply said one reason why a lot of people think a lot of Americans vote for stupid reasons.
Do you really believe that a issue like prolife should be the most important issue for a future president? Don't you for example care about the economy?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:08am PT
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"The GOP cannot chose "better" candidates because they are too hung up on certain issues."
And there is a sensible reason that an articulate, intelligent person such as yourself, feels they must support this decadent, atavistic, club?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:09am PT
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So MacCain choose a prolife VP candidate. The conservative in the GOP get happy. The candidate don't seem to have a clue... but this is not supposed to make any differense because the VP is not supposed to do anything. Is this a correct understanding?
So why are the GOP happy if Palin is not supposed to do anything? Are they really that easy to fool?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:12am PT
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"I am not supporting the litmus test as a means to select candidates for the GOP. I thought it was obvious enough that I was critical of said process."
And then shouldn't you have any problems to understand the view of many people here on supertopo, the US and the rest of the world.
Support stupid things and people might consider you stupid.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:17am PT
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:22am PT
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So palin was choosen becasue the GOP base are so easy to fool.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:29am PT
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Only a fool can be appeased or placated by a VP candidate if the VP candidate make no real difference in the politics.
I really doubt McCain is going to consult palin on any issues if he get elected. Why should he? He only needs to start to lie to the GOP base right before the next election.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:39am PT
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I didn't have time to read all posts above, but I think its silly to say there are no more competent but conservative pro-life women who could have been picked. Sarah is clearly in the lower 50% category. Sad. But her one redeeming feature is that even the old man could get it up in her presence. The others all failed that litmus test. ha
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 05:45am PT
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Palin was McCain's 3rd choice and considering the level of vetting they obviously didn't do, it was a kneejerk decision, not a "very calculated" one, likely made out of frustration that the Republican establishment wouldn't let McCain do as he wished with his first two choices, which were both pro-choice moderates (one was VP candidate in 2000....with Gore at the head of the ticket).
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:54am PT
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Well, here's a cynical take on the whole thing, that unfortunately might be correct.
THe rethuglicans KNOW they've screwed the whole enchilada up so badly, that a major disaster is coming in the next 4 years-- it almost happened yesterday in fact, with the failures of all these finacial institutions and bailouts in the works.
SO, the rethugs are out to lose. On purpose. bacause whoever is in power when the shyte caused by the rethugs will not get back on power for about 50 years, cause the American people will blame whatever admin is in office when the problem comes home to roost hits big.
This would explain McCain's bizarre actions and flip flops, and his choice of Palin, a TERRIBLE choice if they were to win, but one that in the future will look good for the rethuglicans, cause they can say in a few years, hey, we had a woman VP candidate, we are not prejudiced against women.
SO, it's possible that the rethugs have calculated that losing this election and letting the dems try and fail to put out their rethuglican generated fires will do the rethugs more good in the long run than winning right now.
Cause ANYONE who can listen to Plain has to be scared to death to have her as the VP, and the y have to question the judgment of the person who would choose her as VP.
Never mind that McCain wants 300 billion for the rich in tax cuts, and Obama wants to give everyone making under 250K a break, or anything substantive like that.
The main issue is now, HOW can you vote for someone who chooses a totally unqualified running mate?
I have a gut feeling the Palin choice was calculated to Lose the election.
And we know from Mimi and the LEB that gut hunches are always right.
OF course, if Obama can actually save the country, (doubtful, I'm feeling really bad about this-- the whole world economy is about to crash and burn thanks to rethug policies of the last 30 years) then the ploy backfires, and we will have moderate democratic liberal government for about 50 years.
HTs depends on Obama's plans to revitalize hte middle class, which means JOBS that PAY WELL, Education and training , and a return to dominance in industry and innovation by american companies, who instead of going to washington with money under the table trying to get out of working hard and creating something good, will actually have to work.
It is SHAMEFUL that the american auot companies, who whined about higher fleet gas milage requirements being too hard on them, and got what they wanted from reagan til present, are now saying htey need government help or they are toast.
Hell, they are toast cause they let the Japanese forge ahead with hybrids and hydrogen and better economy on conventional engines. IF you know history, once the japanese took about 10 % of the american auto market. Detroit's response was all out war-- in competition!!! they made better cars. Hell, GM once had the biggesr research division of any car company in the world. the jap invasion was thwarted for a while. But then, US auto companies figured out that is was easier to go to washington, hand out a few million here and there, and not have to compete. Or so they thought, LOL.
Look at em now.
Before long you will be driving a Toyota plug in hybrid or a hydrogen fueled Honda. THESE CARS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CREATED BY US MANUFACTURERS, but US car companies acted like idiots, and screwed themselves.
THe rethuglicans and their pals have reaped what they have sown, and that would be just dandy IF it wasn't going to drag us all down with em.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:04am PT
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I totally agree with you about American autos, Other Dirt. I have little sympathy for the plight of American automakers (not autoworkers) when they have fought every innovation and mandate kicking and screaming.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:14am PT
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Dirt to dirt:
I felt so strongly about this issue that I started another thread, and expanded on the idea, and I'm actually going to send the other thread to Obama.
And I'm sending him MONEY, (not much, I can't afford it) which is something we should all do if we REALLY support change and a better life for all Americans.
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