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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 15, 2008 - 11:45pm PT
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I don't know if I buy the handling thing. Certainly they go over small obstacles easier and maintain momentum better. Beyond that, you've got a bunch of guesswork.
On cars, unless you've got a sports car, those big wheels are just for show and won't really make too much difference. On a sports car with the suspension tuned correctly, they allow you to run tires with lower sidewalls, have less sidewall flex, and thus better handling. An SUV with 22" rims is going to roll before you notice that.
The biggest advantage for suspension is not the occasional big drop. It's being able to handle lots of small to medium sized bumps at speed for long distances.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 15, 2008 - 11:50pm PT
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I'd have to agree with all of that Steve.
"It's being able to handle lots of small to medium sized bumps at speed for long distances. "
Anybody with skills and young bones can deftly pilot a variety of gear through all kinds of obstacles for short-term.
But for most of us, equipment selection is about getting through the ride, feeling good about it, and wanting to do it again and again on the chosen gear.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 15, 2008 - 11:58pm PT
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And thanks for the pics TarB. I don't know that I've got any, but mine would look remarkably similar from about 7-8 years later, and a little further up the coast, in Torrance. Had a blue Schwinn much like that, until I managed to talk my parents into a Redline. First road bike was a green Schwinn Varsity salvaged from the neighbor's trash.
The test crew at Cyclingnews worked for quite a while to try to set up a comparison between 26 and 29. Don't know that I remember seeing final results, but the preliminary ones were inconclusive.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 16, 2008 - 12:10am PT
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haha!
Even now I am outdated, still riding a hard tail,
I prefer and select terrain which suits that style of mount, because my bones abide!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 16, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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"The test crew at Cyclingnews worked for quite a while to try to set up a comparison between 26 and 29. Don't know that I remember seeing final results, but the preliminary ones were inconclusive."
It would be interesting to read. My guess would be its primarily about temperament. A big wheel hard tail, with a larger rider moving over average cross country terrain may bridge just fine; perhaps elevating a certain aesthetic. (In essence, rather than appealing to sheer practicality, 29'er culture is likely more about style).
My pal Chris from Yeti,
...traded up from his Moots some time ago and keeps stepping up to whatever full suspension Yeti comes out and he and his kid continue to expand their goals in terms of technicality.
When we ride, I pick a line, while he rides right over whatever. If it's actually technical, I'm off 'cuz suspension travel is what's desired.
No big wheel for him (and he's well over 6'), but I'd probably enjoy the limitation!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Sep 16, 2008 - 01:10am PT
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Whats with the helmets, you guys actually wear those dang heat buckets?
What are you going to hit?
A squirrel?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 16, 2008 - 01:11am PT
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I have a Niner RIP, love it, rolls over everything like butter.
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jbar
Mountain climber
The Dirty South
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Sep 16, 2008 - 03:25am PT
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My 2 cents says get out and ride one. I hate 29ers but thats just me. Don't buy into the thing about them rolling over obstacles. 24", 26", 27", 29" they all have a hole size that will stop the tire. Mine stops all the time. Trouble is I don't. So While it's true that a 29" tire will roll over a 26" hole a 29" hole will stop a 29" tire. It all depends on how you ride. Not much stops my tires unless they go flat and I've finished a ride with the back one flat before too. 29er bikes are heavy and a drag up hills. Gary Fisher has a Youtube vid talking about how great a 29er is. Maybe you should check it out. I guess to me it's kinda like a hog or a sportbike.
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jbar
Mountain climber
The Dirty South
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Sep 16, 2008 - 03:30am PT
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Just saw the post about brain buckets. Yeah they're hot and I take mine off on long uphills but I've done enough soil samples to appreciate mine. Including my helmet on my sport bike. I could never wear one of those sporty little half helmets like the cruiser guys. I had a lady cut me off in traffic. I was only doing about 40 but when I swerved to avoid hitting her my bike hit the curb and I found myself flying through the air, doing a tuck and roll landing with my shoulder and back of my head on the sidewalk. I walked off with some road rash and bruises but the back of my helmet was bashed. Hmm, I was doing 40 on my hardtail a few weeks ago. Where I ride it's always hit or miss with the trees too.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Sep 16, 2008 - 09:40am PT
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I love my Niner S.I.R.9 I haven't ever even considered going back to my 26" wheels since my first ride. I have switched it over to single speed now. I am having more fun Mt biking now than I ever have.
I like it so much I am in the middle of building my own ss 29er.
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Sep 16, 2008 - 12:27pm PT
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OK, from a Mid-Atlantic Racing and Riding perspective (probably similar to Michigan):
I would say about one third to half the guys on my race team have 29ers and more convert each year. All but 1 or 2 are racing and riding (non racing) full suspension.
Those with the 29ers swear by them and would not go back. I have only owned 26ers, but have spent some time in the saddle on friends 29ers. They definitely roll better than a 26 and I really did not notice any sluggishness in handling in tight twisty single track. I was set to buy one until my sponser offered me a sweet deal on last years carbon fiber full sus 26. Too good to pass up, even if not a 29er.
Now as for full suspension or HT:
I was a dedicated HT rider for several years and raced only HT for the last 3, but the new carbon full sus has me converted. I cut my race times by several minutes just by switching bikes. It was one of those DOH! moments. Why had I been racing that old HT for the last 3 seasons ? Now part of that is a better handling bike and part is a slightly lighter bike, but I know bikes and I know racing and the greatest differences in my speed gains are due to better downhill control and better ability to maintain speed over roots and rocks with the full sus (less rear bounce means more contact with the planet and less speed loss). And I gotta say, my 50-year old bod likes it better (a nagging wrist problem has gone away with the cushier ride).
I know there are those that say your skills will be better if you learn to ride on a HT and that may be true, but if you continue to ride, you'll either convert to full sus or convert to single speed (if you become a purist ;-)). Either way, you'll be buying a new bike, so why not just buy the full sus first.
There are issues with 29ers. They are heavier. You'll need to spend a little more to get a reasonably light frame and there is still a little bit of limitation in tubeless tire selection (be sure to get tubeless tires, you'll only end up converting after a year if you do not). The extra weight can be a bit of a hassle on long hill climbs.
I think the tradoffs sway toward buying a 29er for your type of riding.
Bet heed this: the bike does make a difference. Buy a good bike that you will be happy with. If you buy a cheap bike, you will only regret it and buy a better bike within a year or so.
For a full sus you can expect to pay about $2,000-$2,500 for a bike you will enjoy for several years. You can find better deals on close outs or last years models. You can get a HT for about $500-700 less. In that price range, any bike you get is a good bike with good components. The only question is fit.
On fit: it's very hard for someone with no riding experience to decide if a bike really fits (edited to add, not necessarily applicable to OP, but worth noting). Bike shops won't let you try out a MTB on the trail anyway, so you'll need to depend on the bike shop to fit you. This is why it's worth paying a bit more for their expertise. You can get a better deal on e-bay or other web sources, but if the bike fits poorly, you will not enjoy it and it can lead to overuse injuries.
I would be happy to answer specific questions about specific bikes or other issues. Just send me a PM.
Tim
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 16, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
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That's a sleek ride Tommy; thanks for posting up!
This whole thing is about tweaking the format enough to limit technology and reintroduce finesse.
(great post troutboy)
Dr. Rock:
Ha!
Not helmets, but a variation of the French beret.
Crash into a squirrel with one of those hats and you're fuched.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2008 - 09:36pm PT
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Wow there is some great insight here. Thanks for all of the posts, I am working on some specific questions and will post as I put them together.
Troutboy,
I am 6'4 and have found that taller guys seem to like the 29ers. My question to riders who have ridden 29er's hard tails, 26" FS, and 29" FS's. Which do you prefer? I have read that 29ers FS is not necessary as the 29ers roll over things better? I have also read that a 26 with FS rides about the same as a 29 hard tail? Is this true??? Then considering that I have no plans to ever race would it make sense to get a FS 29er even if would cost me a little weight and time? I am hoping to get to ride both a 29 hard tail and full suspension this weekend.
Cheers, and I appreciate your time.
Prod.
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jbar
Mountain climber
The Dirty South
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Sep 16, 2008 - 10:11pm PT
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Whoa landcruiserbob. 36 miles of hills with a mono? You must have treestumps for legs! I could never do it. I alwasy hated the single speed bike I had when I was little. Got my first 12 speed when I was 12. I did love the old coaster brakes though.
A real fat tire rider
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2008 - 10:25pm PT
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Jbar,
Look at the commitment, that guy is still holding the bars! Wow.
Prod.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Sep 16, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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That looks like Tar in that pic. Hold on baby!
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 16, 2008 - 11:47pm PT
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I've also been looking at mnt bikes recenttly and have a few questions
Any advice on used vs new?
Any one care to give a run down on the different component lines from SRAM, shimano, etc... what sucks, whats good enough...?
Any recommendations on a good budget bike for use as a back up commuter (I ride an older cannondale cycle cross bike but would like something that stops better in the snow), alpine approach vehicle and car shuttle (maybe a hard tail with disk brakes?) It doesn't need to be super light but durability would be nice.
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jbar
Mountain climber
The Dirty South
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Sep 17, 2008 - 12:03am PT
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He's only holding on to keep the seat from driving up any farther
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Sep 17, 2008 - 09:19am PT
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Prod:
"I am 6'4 and have found that taller guys seem to like the 29ers. My question to riders who have ridden 29er's hard tails, 26" FS, and 29" FS's. Which do you prefer? I have read that 29ers FS is not necessary as the 29ers roll over things better? I have also read that a 26 with FS rides about the same as a 29 hard tail? Is this true??? Then considering that I have no plans to ever race would it make sense to get a FS 29er even if would cost me a little weight and time? I am hoping to get to ride both a 29 hard tail and full suspension this weekend."
=
I do not think I have ridden a 29er enough to distinguish between a 29er HT and 29er full sus. I'll ask some of my buds who have converted and get some input for you. I think a full sus bike will almost always give a smoother ride, even over a 29er. Yes, the 29er rolls over things better, but you still get a bounce in the rear w/o a suspension. But let me get some specific input on that issue from guys who have ridden a 29er more than I. I'll be able to ask around at the race this weekend.
You say you are 6'4". Very important factor - How much do you weigh ?
At your height you will have issues regarding the strength of the bike, especially if you are in the normal to big weight range for your height. If your a skinny-ass dude (tm), you will have fewer issues. If you fit in the 200 lb range you need to be concerned about finding a very sturdy bike, including frame and front shock. Some sleek and light bikes have slightly smaller diameter front shocks that are fine for us 140 lb guys in a race, but would never hold up to the pounding a 200 lb guy will inflict in xc daily riding.
So, you might need to sacrifice a bit on bike weight to get a sturdy frame.
You might also have issues finding a bike that fits. You fall outside the mainstream male height, so you might have a smaller selection of bikes from which to choose because you will require a large frame (also adding weight). Hopefully you have a good local shop that carries a good selection.
I would not worry so much about a few extra ounces or perhaps a pound or two to get a frame suitable for your size. If you are not racing, you will probably never notice and the new bike will feel so much better than your old one on the trail, it will still seem like da bomb.
Couple more points:
1) Clipless is the way to go. If you have not ridden clipless before, it will require some getting used to. You can always add clipless pedal for about $50-75 + shoes. A decent bike will likely come with them though. You can ask your bike shop to throw some flat pedals in the bike deal (they are cheap and the shop should give them to you for free) and install them if you think you need some time getting used to a new bike before switching. If you are comfy on a MTB already, just start clipless.
2) You want disk brakes. Any good bike will come with Avid, Hayes, or comparable disk brakes. I prefer Avid. Hayes had some issues with some recent designs. They may have been corrected with the newer models though. They will either be mechanical or hydraulic and come in different diameters. Both work equally well. Hydraulics are a little smoother and easier on the hands. Definitely nicer if you ride areas with looooong downhills. Mechanicals are a bit easier to adjust and maintain. I think in Michigan you will be fine with mechanicals and it will be easier for you to keep them in good working order, but if you find a good bike that comes with hydraulics, just go with them and learn how to bleed bike brakes (not as easy as on your old Ford Maverick though). For your riding, 6"-diameter rotors should be adequate and those should be the standard size on the bikes you are looking at. I like my new hydraulics better than my old mechs, but I may change my mind the first time they need some maintenance ;-).
Regarding the query: I will be climbing until next Wed, so I'll get back to you then.
TS
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