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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 23, 2008 - 01:46am PT
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graniteclimber that dinosaur cartoon is awesome. And by awesome I mean horrifying.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 23, 2008 - 02:00am PT
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Heaven is boring..... I'll let you know when I'm there. : )
but "highly" doubtful....
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Jul 23, 2008 - 01:48pm PT
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TOP TEN MYTHS ABOUT CREATIONISTS
1. Creationists reject the Big Bang theory.
2. Creationists believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old.
3. Creationists believe the universe was created within 6 days.
4. Creationists believe every species was created within 6 days.
5. Creationists believe no new species has ever evolved.
6. Creationists believe no new structure has ever evolved.
7. Creationists believe humans lived when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
8. Creationists believe the entire Earth was covered by Noah’s flood.
9. Creationists believe representatives of all living species were in Noah’s ark.
10. Creationists believe all fossils were buried during Noah’s flood.
There is considerable variation in what creationists believe. Some might accept all of these beliefs, but some don’t believe in any of these yet still believe in an intelligent designer. I know several dozen biologists, chemists and physicists with Ph.D. degrees who believe in an intelligent designer, and few of them would accept more than a few of these beliefs. A lot of creationists are more accepting of evolutionary theory--what they like to term "microevolution"--than many people think.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Jul 23, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
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As I pointed out in an earlier thread, both sides of the debate often ignore the point that the Bible was not intended to be a scientific textbook. Its purpose was to reveal the Rock of Ages, not the ages of rocks.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Jul 23, 2008 - 02:22pm PT
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LEB, you asked about fulfilled prophecies.
Christians differ in their views of prophecy, but I think all belive that Jesus fulfilled the prediction of a suffering Messiah in Isaiah 53. Many believe the year in which Jesus began his ministry as the Messiah fulfilled the time prediction of Daniel 9:25 (though there is some disagreement of the exact year when the Messiah began his ministry). Many believe other texts accurately predicted the circumstances of the following events:
1. Birth of Jesus: Psalm 2:6-7, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7, Micah 5:2
2. Ancestry of Jesus: Genesis 12:3, 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:15, 18, Jeremiah 23:5-6, 33:15
3. Ministry of Jesus: Malachi 3:1, Isaiah 9:1-2, 35:4-6, 40:3, 42:1-7, 49:6-7, 61:1-3
4. Death of Jesus: Psalm 22:16-18, 34:20, 41:9, Isaiah 50:6, Zechariah 9:9, 11:12, 12:10, 13:7
5. Resurrection of Jesus: Psalm 16:9-11, Isaiah 53:10-11
Many believe the sacrificial system of the Jews, such as the Day of the Atonement (Leviticus 16), symbolized the sacrificial death of the Messiah.
Some skeptics contend that these messianic prophecies were added to the Old Testament texts after Jesus died. But these were ancient Hebrew scriptures, faithfully copied through the centuries by Jewish scribes who rejected Jesus as their Messiah and would not allow Christians to insert such passages. Furthermore, most of these prophecies, including Isaiah 53, are found among the Dead Sea scrolls, which apparently predate Jesus since no mention is made of him. Secular scholars concur that the scrolls were transcribed during the first or second century before Christ.
Others assert that the events of Jesus’s life as recorded in the gospels were simply twisted to fit the messianic prophecies. But if so, early historians corroborate at least a few key events in his life that could not have been concocted, such as the timing of his ministry prophesied by Daniel, his agonizing death as foretold by the psalmist, Isaiah and Zechariah, and his rejection by the Jews and general acceptance by many Gentiles as predicted by Isaiah.
In addition to Messianic prophecies, there are historical and apocalyptic (end of time) prophecies which many Christians find convincing. For example, the statue of Daniel 2 and the four beasts of Daniel 7 are believed by many to represent the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman empires, respectively (the first three are even mentioned by name in Daniel). There is less agreement about apocalyptic prophecies so I won't go there.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 23, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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Anyone for deism? "The belief that a supreme god exists and created the physical universe, but does not intervene in its normal operation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism One branch of deism is the Unitarians.
Of the U.S. founding parents, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, Hugh Williamson, James Madison, John Adams, Ethan Allen, Thomas Paine and possibly Alexander Hamilton and George Washington were deists. Deism is one reason for the constitutional separation of church and state in the U.S. (Others being the vicious European religious wars of the 16th - 18th centuries, and of course the Enlightenment.)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 23, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
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Mighty Hiker, can't put him in a nice tidy either/or slot.... such as he does get involved or he doesn't get involved.
"god" is like an unexplored country...as you walk you never know what you'll find...life is an incredible gift to each of us. Jesus words work on this grand adventure. Grace is one of many resources in this country of vast discovery. Being a pilgrim is something climbers can identify with...just passin' through. smiles, Lynne (and thanks for the reminder, I get to firmly attached sometimes)
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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Jul 23, 2008 - 10:35pm PT
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BUMP
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Double D
climber
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Jul 24, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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LEB "DoubleD
1. Which particular prophecies have been fulfilled?
2. What is the personal "experience of confirmation" you reference? "
I would be more than happy to forward you, or anyone else my testimony, just email me. In fact I will even go a step further and email out a weekly inter-active Bible study if you (or anyone else) is interested. Floyd Hayes has already listed a handful of prophesy fulfilled for you. The Bible is an endless source of fascination and wonder for study. I do hope you find what you are looking for, if you are at all looking. (-;
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 24, 2008 - 12:35pm PT
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Funny how all those prophecies mentioned so far are thousands of years old, and were full filled back then as well, and can't be verified for sh!t, and actually might as well be fairy tales.
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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Jul 25, 2008 - 12:02am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2008 - 12:09am PT
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Yeah thousands of years old and can't be verified they say.
Birth, death, disease and old age are prophesied and have already taken hold of you ......
Verified .....
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 25, 2008 - 12:24am PT
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Weenie, your statement is so stupid it defies belief.
Maybe you should try actually thinking about what you write once in a while, instead of parroting your cherished nonsense.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2008 - 12:32am PT
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It defies belief.
Because it's true.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Jul 25, 2008 - 01:48am PT
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Poo Angels.
There are little, invisible Poo Angels that guard every poo you leave in the woods.
It defies belief.
Because it's true.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 25, 2008 - 10:51am PT
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Exactly Juan.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Jul 25, 2008 - 11:42am PT
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This religious prophecy stuff is complete and 100% BULLLL SHHHIITTT.
Just like evolution, because you can only reference things that supposedly happened in the past that you can not verify.
After the fact - therefore because of the fact load of crap.
Can't wait 'till religious zealots die and nothing happens, the world and life goes on with out them.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2008 - 12:19pm PT
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You will die too, and something will happen.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 25, 2008 - 09:05pm PT
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Wanda (perhaps troll)... Dirt in Eye and Uncle Doug,
Why such belligerent responses ? Opinions are to be considered. BITD's it was called debate and was carried on in an orderly fashion...pulling out a double barrel and blasting the other side was faux pas. Think we should considerately respect peoples opinions. IMHO of course....now go ahead, blast away...smiles, Lynne
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andanother
climber
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Jul 25, 2008 - 10:25pm PT
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"Birth, death, disease and old age are prophesied and have already taken hold of you ......"
WBraun nailed it! Can't argue that, sinners!
Birth, death, disease, and old age did NOT exist until it was prophesized in The Bible. That's a historical FACT because it's written in The Bible.
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