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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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"I'm still wondering where all the matter in the universe came from"
This guy's poop,
and Vishnu's navel, get with it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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In the thread on gay marriage I proposed a monosexual god created the universe in a masturbatory big bang thus unifying religion and science in a single (probably several) stroke[s]. Multiverses when he's really horny.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 09:39pm PT
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Yeah, but did he (no she, in this case) bang his forehead?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Floyd, distances between habitable planets and systems essentially makes getting between them more a matter of time travel than anything else. Within regions of space it could easily be the case where many planets are or become habitable, but never two at the same time given the time scales invloved. But I could see a certain percentage of all fully inhabited planets being obliterated by an asteroids or comets and having the elements of life scattered across space. The time thing works both ways, billions of years to percolate, but probably difficult for any intelligently inhabited planet to detect or communicate with any other such planet in the time left in their sun's ability to sustain that life. I'm totally guessing, but despite my belief that life and even intelligent life is common as sknott in the universe, I suspect the realities of distance and time mean that 99.9999% of all life emerges, lives, and is extinquished in complete isolation.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Btw, my copy says 1859...
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the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
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Here's one of my favourite paragraphs...page 116
Circumstances favourable to natural selection
This is an extemely intricate subject. A large amount of inheritable and diversified variability is favourable, but I believe mere individual differences suffice for the work. A large number of of individuals by giving a better chance for the appearance within any given period of profitable variations, will compensate for a lesser amount of variability in each individual, and is, I believe, an extremely important element of success. Though nature grants vast periods of time for the work of natural selection, she does not grant an indefinite period; for as all organic beings are striving, it may be said, to seize on each place in the economy of nature, if any one species does not become modified and improved in a corresponding degree with its competitors, it will soon be exterminated.
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Darwin passed away with a paper about genetic material sitting on his book shelf. He never read the paper. He had no clue as to the mechanism of his observed conclusions. He made observations and amazing ones at that. Far to often the scope of his work is taken way out of context. Especially when one steps into the "political" realm of wanting to discuss Intelligent design or Creationism (the political realm is the only place those topics belong as they are not science).
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Well, Nature, thanks for posting. You haven't said enough for me to know how to respond, but I know you are Nature and we can debate when we find the common ground...cause you are Nature and yo are great!!!
Thanks for being mellow. Lynne
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Well, DMT, interested. At least you are open;;; Have a great night. Lynne
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Floyd writes: My theory is simple: I DON'T KNOW! Is there anything wrong with admitting our ignorance?
Nothing wrong with that at all. But we do understand more and more, through the application of a methodology, the so called "scientific method," and one could hope to eventually understand the origin of life, and even of the matter in the universe. This understanding will be based on sound science. If there is a faith that I hold to, it is that we will understand.
As a scientist I would say there is much that we do not understand. I do not fear to admit to ignorance. But there is also much tat we do understand and we should admit that to.
It is one thing to say "I don't know," it is quite another to deny that we will ever know.
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WBraun
climber
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The whole Darwinian theory is false. It has no sound basis. Darwin himself admits it is just a theory.
Theory is not science.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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The really amazing thing about Darwins work is that it took place at a time when we were just beginning to understand that matter consisted of Atoms.
So many dfifferent aspects of the advances in scientific understanding that have occurred since that time have played a part in fleshing out the molecular basis for the theory.
I think that part of the reason that scientists get so frustrated, is that so much of modern science is intertwined with Evolution.
If you don't believe in the science of Evolution then you might as well believe that cell phones work by magic.
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WBraun
climber
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No one not even Darwin can be independent.
Darwin died. So he was under the control of something higher.
No man wants to die, but he is forced to die.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2008 - 12:58am PT
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WB himself is living proof of evolution. Once he was no 'count climbin' bum, hangin' with all 'em low life dirtbags in Slummyside Mudhole. Now he's a 'spected citizen and member of society, fixin' radios, hangin' off choppers, helpin' keep us all on the straight and narrow.
His continuing association with well-known felon #46 is another matter, but I guess we all have our dark sides.
As it only took 20 years for this change to occur, intelligent (re)design may also be a factor. Either way, though, isn't it supposed to take a lot longer?
ps Thank you, Ouch! Lynne will be happy.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dingus:
[url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16379527" target="new"]Bacillus subtilis spores on artificial meteorites survive hypervelocity atmospheric entry: implications for Lithopanspermia[/url]
[url="http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=24844" target="new"]Life Forms Ejected on Asteroid Impact Could Survive to Reseed Earth According to a Study Published in Astrobiology[/url]
[url="http://space.newscientist.com/channel/space-tech/astrobiology/dn1771" target="new"]Bugs could travel in comfort aboard meteorites[/url]
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Thank you Ouch! Enjoy your work again on the ST and Happy 4th of July! Lynne
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Floyd, ...but I can't explain how life arrived here.
Neither can I, but arguments from incredulity (I can't believe, see or understand XYZ, therefore it isn't true or it couldn't have happened) are not the answer. Not knowing is the beginning of finding out, it is the basis of all scientific inquiry.
Maybe by chance, maybe from another planet, maybe there really is an intelligent designer. Believing in any one of those sounds like faith to me.
Agreed, arrival from another planet or creation from a god/designer still leaves open the question of how they came into existence. What was the other planet's or designer god's abiogenesis? Chance, as noted above, is one likely element of the abiogenesis puzzle, add chemistry and time and...?
Saying that life is too complex to have emerged by mere chance and then proposing something even more complex (i.e. god or designer) as the solution is just dumb. (Floyd, I know you did not make this claim, I'm just making a comment).
It's beyond the current realm of science.
How can you make this claim? It is actively being studied and is certainly within the imagined "current realm of science". Everything is within the realm of science. You might find this interesting. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg&eurl=http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/06/wondering_how_life_got_started.php [/url]
WB, The whole Darwinian theory is false. It has no sound basis. Darwin himself admits it is just a theory. Theory is not science.
This is a classic, and weak, creationist argument. First off it's not "Darwinian theory", it's the theory of evolution. The theory has changed over the years as we understand more and more. Darwin got the ball rolling with his intial insights. And as to your claim that it is "just a theory", I lifted the following from "An Index to Creationist Claims" to help you see why this is a lame argument.
[url]http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/[/url]
"The word theory, in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty. It means "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena" (Barnhart 1948). In the case of the theory of evolution, the following are some of the phenomena involved. All are facts:
Life appeared on earth more than two billion years ago;
Life forms have changed and diversified over life's history;
Species are related via common descent from one or a few common ancestors;
Natural selection is a significant factor affecting how species change.
Many other facts are explained by the theory of evolution as well.
The theory of evolution has proved itself in practice. It has useful applications in epidemiology, pest control, drug discovery, and other areas (Bull and Wichman 2001; Eisen and Wu 2002; Searls 2003).
Besides the theory, there is the fact of evolution, the observation that life has changed greatly over time. The fact of evolution was recognized even before Darwin's theory. The theory of evolution explains the fact.
If "only a theory" were a real objection, creationists would also be issuing disclaimers complaining about the theory of gravity, atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of limits (on which calculus is based). The theory of evolution is no less valid than any of these. Even the theory of gravity still receives serious challenges (Milgrom 2002). Yet the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is still a fact.
Creationism is neither theory nor fact; it is, at best, only an opinion. Since it explains nothing, it is scientifically useless."
Happy Birthday ‘On the Origin of Species'!
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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I like Jaybro's poop hypothesis. An alien spacecraft circumnavigated Earth in search of intelligent life. Disappointed at not finding any, the craft landed on the planet, an extraterrestrial terrestrial beast stepped, crawled or slithered to the ground to poop, and BINGO! We all evolved from his or her fecal bacteria.
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