Good Anchors, Bad Anchors

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Shrug

Trad climber

Apr 10, 2008 - 12:20am PT

Bluering, I have no clue. I just kinda paused, sighed, took the picture and walked on. The up rooted tree was enough.

But I dug up the raw photo from last fall, it does look like it's just slack for something. Maybe it's tied to something over the edge. Prob an old pin.

Like this one that was found on the same bluff. :)

bhilden

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA

Apr 10, 2008 - 02:34am PT

Back in the late 80's Metolius came out with their "P-bolts" which look very similar to the Ushba Ti bolts shown here. One problem with the P-bolts was that they could unclip themselves if the carabiner was rotated up 180 degrees and the gate was pushed against the top(straight section of the 'P') of the bolt.

Has anyone seen this happening with Ushba's?

Bruce

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2008 - 08:13am PT

Bruce, do you have a photo of a P-bolt?

In a few hundred clips, I haven't seen anything like this happening with the titanium Tortuga
bolts, though that doesn't prove it can't.

Most of the exposed part of the Tortuga bolt has a smooth, ring-like radius, which ought
to reduce any danger of catching.

Jim E

climber

Mountain Road

Apr 10, 2008 - 09:42am PT

How about a rock V-thread? The rope was in there so tight it was not possible to inspect what was inside. I wonder how the hell they got it in there.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2008 - 10:26am PT

Cool, Jim. I'm told that in Thailand, rock V-threads have been drilled as the cheap alternative
to titanium bolts. And/or you drill a whole nest of steel bolts and tie them all together, the
5-wrongs-make-a-right theory.

Anybody got photos/stories of such anchors?

Shrug

Trad climber

Apr 10, 2008 - 10:57am PT

oakie, Devil's Lake Wisconsin of all places. There are old pins scattered around the area. mostly pre 80's I think. Some still look ok to clip actually, (I have clipped a few). That one though... The ring was rusted through at one part, Wish I got a closer picture. I have been debating if it was homemade or not.

Greg Barnes

climber

Apr 10, 2008 - 11:29am PT

Hey Bruce, the same thing can happen with any eye bolts, and actually it can happen with nearly any hanger - it's almost easier with a regular hanger. It is most probable with stiff draws with the bolt end biner fixed (i.e. those rubber stabilizers to keep biners from rotating - typically only on the rope end).

If you have an eye bolt clipped (eg glue-in), rotate the draw 30 degrees with the clip-in biner gate up, push it up, then move it towards the bolt. Unclips.

If you have a standard hanger (which have the clip-in point angled down and right), clip a draw to it with the gate facing left, push the draw up, then push it left - same thing, biner unclips.

The size of the biner and the size of the hanger can limit how it can happen - for instance, a micro biner that isn't tall enough to get the nose of the biner above the top of the hanger might not be able to unclip (depending on hanger).

The thing about it is that it's very hard to do in practice while climbing, you pretty much have to be scumming your body on the draw to do it, and even then it'd be quite the trick to do it. Much more common is the biner clipped to the bolt rotating and getting crossloaded (often with the base of the gate hanging on the edge of the bolt hanger, or with the dogbone hanging on the gate itself) - this happens all the time, and luckily people usually don't fall.

Raydog

Trad climber

Boulder Colorado

Apr 12, 2008 - 08:19am PT

bump as a reminder - for someone...
thanks :)

Nudge Nudge

Trad climber

WI, now CA

Apr 12, 2008 - 05:44pm PT

Had to add these from some hillbilly's attempt to set up the Rostrum highline last summer. Had two draws off his belay loop for the tyrolean, which he struggled to get over the knot and nonlockers attaching the rope to the webbing. Wouldn't listen to anybody. I wish I got a shot of their final highline anchor. Spooky.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2008 - 09:23am PT

Might be interesting to post photos of "the best I could do" anchors, ones we built
ourselves from unpromising materials.

In the meantime, here's a close look at one more snapped-off Brac bolt.

emac

climber

New Hampshire

Apr 16, 2008 - 10:51am PT

The bolt says it all. Located in the Superstitions, AZ.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 09:35am PT

Emac, it's thoughtful of the route developers to label their bolts that way. Read your hangers before clipping!

rick d

Social climber

tucson, az

Apr 18, 2008 - 10:07am PT

supes bolt is likely a "Bandito" made by Dan Langemade & Stan Mish at Dan's metal business in Phoenix. We also made a few but not that clean.......

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2008 - 10:48am PT

Channeling Lord Slime again, his observations about my bolt photo above --

Regards your photo of the broken bolt... It's a great photo
of a stainless steel "clad" bolt. It's easy to see the
stainless cladding and the mild steel that's rusted and
broken.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:17pm PT

Bandito hanger for sure! "No Gud" was a popular hanger stamp for those guys also. Marshall Gud was the arch rival and nemesis of the infamous Banditos and none other than Jim Waugh!

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Apr 18, 2008 - 12:32pm PT

Best I could do in Cochise Stronghold...

Bomber...

-Brian in SLC

rick d

Social climber

tucson, az

Apr 18, 2008 - 11:17pm PT

SG-

that pesky Marshall Gud. Damn glad Mish bolted his door shut!

...waugh had a few in his collection and I think mish gave him a super size leeper hanger and bolt (bolt was 1" diameter, hanger was like a foot across).