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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 21, 2008 - 05:12am PT
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It brought tears to my eyes. I had hopes for Obama before, now I'm starting to have faith!
Peace
Karl
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Mar 21, 2008 - 08:29am PT
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HighDesertDJ wrote
"I find it a little scary that you thought Obama was a lightweight though. He was near the top of his class at Harvard Law, was the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review and was one of the top lawyer prospects in the nation when he graduated. He coulda done anything, but he decided to become a community organizer. "
perhaps "lightweight" was a bit off the mark - but intended to convey my earlier impression that BO was simply parroting the words of some behind-the-scenes puppeteer/spin-doctor. It seems that all politicians go to the same "finishing school" where they learn to wrap themselves in the American flag, get some pictures in church and walking through factories, be seen where real people live and work, spew out the same vapid rehtoric and try to look like us. Unfortunately 99.999 percent are not like us. They're just a creation of their handlers. (Our current president is a very strong argument against the proposition that you can't polish a turd)
In my mind, one of the most refreshing things about the B.O. speech was the fact that it cut against the spin-doctors and dealt with the issues frankly and openly - and spoke directly to us as though we are intelligent adults capable of understanding an honest examination of a fundamental problem in our society. Bravo. I hope this idea catches on. The problem I see with most politicians following suit is that they first have to be intelligent adults in order to participate in any such conversation - thus they will continue to need their handlers.
RRK
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jstan
climber
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Mar 21, 2008 - 10:29am PT
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A question. Do you think it wise to put a person known to have a quick temper in charge of the red button?
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Mar 21, 2008 - 10:36am PT
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I'd love to see data supporting this assertion
"The majority (60%) of illegal immigrants overstayed their visas. They came into the country legally, often from eastern european countries"
actually when checking for myself it seems your data is not only totally wrong, but intended to deceive.
US Government Accountability Office (GAO)[42].
Using data from March of 2004, PHC estimated[43]
Country of Origin Percent of all illegal immigrants
Mexico 57%
Central America (and to a lesser extent, South America) 24%
Asia 9%
Europe and Canada 6%
Other 4%
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:32am PT
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On the way to work I heard ABC news do exactly this same thing. Read the first sentence of this AP article;
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080321/D8VHPS300.html
Bill Richardson, the nations only hispanic governor, endorses Obama.
WTF? How about, former presidential candidate Gov Richardson endorses Obama.
Why does race always have to be crammed down our throats. His race is more important than the fact that he was in the POTUS race. I am really getting sick of this racial crap.
I don't think I'm alone either. Can we judge people on their merit or demerit and NOT the f-king color of their skin or ethnic hertige.
GAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:38am PT
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Obama is probably going to loose PA by a significant difference. It will then be a brokered convention and a replay of 1968. The Victocrat party will shatter.
Looks good for McCain.
See page 12
http://edisk.fandm.edu/FLI/keystone/pdf/keymar08_1.pdf
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:39am PT
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"I don't think I'm alone either. Can we judge people on their merit or demerit and NOT the f-king color of their skin or ethnic hertige.
GAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
That would be nice. I applaud you for doing so. But we (the US) are not there yet. If you look at patterns in the Dem primary, for example, it shows that, generally speaking, people still vote for candidates who look like them. Identity politics is still alive and well.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 21, 2008 - 03:37pm PT
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...and he's the only hispanic governor, OMG!!!!
whatever...
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jstan
climber
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Mar 21, 2008 - 05:41pm PT
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Lois:
How did you learn that Obama's intention for joining that church was to compensate for his being "too white"? Did Obama say that was his intention in a speech somewhere?
This election keeps pushing me back to the election of 1860, another election coming when the republic faced mortal questions. In the Lincoln Douglas debates( they can be found on the net) Douglas averred many times as to what Lincoln's intentions were as regards the positions he had taken on slavery. I think it was in the debate down on the Ohio river, Lincoln said, "When the honorable Mr. Douglas tells you what my intentions are, he tells you something he cannot know."
Lois. Where did you learn of Obama's intention for joining that specific church?
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jstan
climber
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Mar 21, 2008 - 06:00pm PT
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Lois:
You made a very striking reference to the intentions of a candidate for president. I would like to see your source. Things like this are really important.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Mar 21, 2008 - 06:54pm PT
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McCain was an American war hero and man of principles. But he traded his principles for the Republican nomination.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Mar 21, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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"Just a one time appearance to rake in cash and a few votes, read his book if you want his take on the religious right. Of course, I heard it in person on the bus in 2000, You wouldn't believe me though."
Fattrad, I believe you, but the McCain who wrote the book in 2000, and that you got to know (also in 2000) is not the McCain running for President in 2008. That McCain is gone and that is a real shame. Since then McCain has made a lengthy and protracted effort to retract his words from 2000 and cozy up the to the religious right.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 21, 2008 - 07:37pm PT
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mdavid- Thanks for looking that up. I was not intending to deceive, but simply had not checked my facts and relied on what I thought was credible second-hand information.
LEB- I realize that FOX has you warped but I don't really think you fully appreciate the level you are stooping when you continue to assert that he joined his church solely for political reasons. And I'm not sure why you feel it necessary to assure us that they will be played over and over, that's kind of a no-brainer, especially since it has already been happening for the last week.
Lastly, how you can not be moved by the way in which Obama handled that incident is beyond me.
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Offset
climber
slc
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Mar 21, 2008 - 07:50pm PT
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in speech: "yes, i sat thru some of these sermons..."
in interview: "i was unaware of these statements..."
which is it??
if it's the former...why only speak out now?
if it's the later....well, i find that one hard to believe based on how vocal the preacher is.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 21, 2008 - 08:24pm PT
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Speak out about what? Should he comb through his life and announce every time he heard someone say something inflammatory or that he didn't agree with? What the hell is with you people? This guy wasn't inciting violence, and what he was saying was only a big shock if you pay absolutely no attention at all to the underlying frustration and sentiment in the black community.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 21, 2008 - 09:08pm PT
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LEB- I think it has something to do with the cynical sense of self-interest with which our country has gone about its business for a long, long time. Here we have a chance to actually have a frank dialogue about race. A major political figure, instead of doing what was the politically "safe" thing to do, told the truth and addressed it head on.
Isn't that what we claim we wished politicians would do? Isn't that the dream? Not for them to do the safe thing, not play his cards right, but simply tell truth in the face of unlikely odds. Standing for what is possible is a very, very powerful thing, and it saddens me that people can not see that power when it stares them in the face.
So yeah, it is moving for someone to get up and stand for what is possible. Particularly after 8 years of being called unpatriotic for speaking out against violations of our liberties and the institutionalization of torture by our gov't. 8 years of Fatty's neocon compatriots telling us "you don't know what is good for you, but we do. We're rich and powerful and so we clearly know how to do these things, even if it makes you all butthurt."
Yes, it is moving to actually talk ABOUT an issue, not posture or talk around it, and especially one so volatile and long standing as race. That is why is it frustrating when you mimic the cable news programs and just horserace it. With Obama its not about where you get, its about how you get there. If you ever get to one of his rallies, you will see that his stump speech is not about what he can do as President, but what we can do as people.
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John Moosie
climber
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Mar 21, 2008 - 09:14pm PT
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"A major political figure, instead of doing what was the politically "safe" thing to do, told the truth and addressed it head on. "
Yep...Refreshing. It is time people learned to face the truth.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:34pm PT
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LEB = Rokjox.
Obama = wolf.
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Chalk Martin
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 22, 2008 - 12:39am PT
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the media lied and cut that speech up for there own sickness. the reverend Wright was quoting ambassidor Peck (a white man). See the speech on you tube. I am in no way computer savvy and do not know how to post links etc... go to BTLS.com click afternoon show and look for the Obama you tube link. CAUTION BTLS.com IS RAUNCY AND WIIL OFFEND DECENT FOLK.
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